Competitive Tetris Scene Rant

[Someone2knoe]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]this is not about 180 twist, it's about those crazy piece travels.

how 180 work only depens on what wallkick table is used. Nobody is saying 180 need to follow nullpomino's wallkick rules.[/quote]

I agree with that, but I think its safe to just simulate two rotates. Problems might arise from which way it is rotated though so maybe it can have simple kicks?

[Wojtek]

How are 180 SRS kicks decided anyways? Is it just whatever the programmer feels?

more important question is:
How are SRS kicks decided anyways? Is it just whatever TTC feels?

[caffeine]

They do need to do something about those bizarre twists.  I think Wojtek offered a easy/good solution:
[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]
[1:24:52 PM] Wojtek Kowaluk: there is simple solution
[1:24:57 PM] Wojtek Kowaluk: like in tgm3 ars
[1:25:04 PM] Wojtek Kowaluk: you can kick up only once per piece
[1:25:09 PM] Wojtek Kowaluk: simple and effective

[/quote]

All twists that are available on TF are available on TGM3. This rule doesn't change that. I believe this rule (and the rule where you can only rotate 8 times before forced locking or something) was meant to prevent players from sitting on the arcade forever. Even with those restrictions, I believe there was still a way to rotate indefinitely with i-tetromino (I don't remember for sure).

In any case, I'd find it unlikely that TTC would do anything about bizarre twists since spectators go crazy for them. It's a "wow factor" thing.

more important question is:
How are SRS kicks decided anyways? Is it just whatever TTC feels?

From tetris.com,
[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]Visual Rotation Point:
using the Super Rotation System, this is the point anywhere near or within the Tetrimino around which the Tetris Engine attempts to rotate the Tetrimino. If unsuccessful, it will attempt to use the next Visual Rotation Point of the Tetrimino until it is successful.[/quote]

[Someone2knoe]

so does blockbox or nullpo follow VRP? Can this be used for 180s anyway?

[Blink]

All twists that are available on TF are available on TGM3. This rule doesn't change that.

Actually we were talking about the insane looping twists not regular twists lol.  The ones in the videos 1 page back.

[caffeine]

so does blockbox or nullpo follow VRP?

"Visual rotation point" was semi-reverse-engineered by Koryan, and then fully reverse-engineered by Jago, using a coordinate/table approach. It's the same thing either way, so yes, BB and nullpomino follow SRS correctly.

Actually we were talking about the insane looping twists not regular twists lol.  The ones in the videos 1 page back.

Ah, I see. In my opinion, it's unnecessary and redundant to make a rule against loopy stuff. It's so time consuming (and piece consuming) to build loops that you'll never see it used in a multiplayer (or high-scoring single player) mode. Why bother?

[Wojtek]

All twists that are available on TF are available on TGM3. This rule doesn't change that. I believe this rule (and the rule where you can only rotate 8 times before forced locking or something) was meant to prevent players from sitting on the arcade forever. Even with those restrictions, I believe there was still a way to rotate indefinitely with i-tetromino (I don't remember for sure).

read carefuly, i was talking about ars one floorkick limit not about srs reset limit. i don't really know how well that would work, but if it works then possibility of step reset will be nice side effect. That would allow for more challenging 20g speeds.
[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]
From tetris.com,
[/quote]
how this explains anything?

[chopin]

In my opinion, it's unnecessary and redundant to make a rule against loopy stuff. It's so time consuming (and piece consuming) to build loops that you'll never see it used in a multiplayer (or high-scoring single player) mode. Why bother?

I agree. In my opinion I think SRS is fine as it is. We'll just adapt to it, most players and the rest of the world is already playing with it and it seems flexible enough, unlike ARS. I think a game like this should just be regular SRS and possibly add the double rotate button.

[caffeine]

read carefuly, i was talking about ars one floorkick limit not about srs delay reset limit. i don't really know how well that would work, but maybe with such limit step reset would be possible. That would allow for more challenging 20g speeds.

I apologize for not paying close enough attention to your post. Apparently the quote is from a chat, so I'm only able to interpret it from Blink's quote.

I'm not totally sure what the point you're trying to make is exactly, so if I'm off-base with what follows, please don't hesitate to correct me:

If you're trying to restrict SRS's crazy infinite rotation stuff to make a more challenging 20G mode, then a "one floorkick rule" wouldn't do the trick. Even a "only X moves/rotations allowed" wouldn't do the trick (I believe there's a case where you can keep an I-tetrimino hovering in the air). The best solution in my opinion is to have a "spawn reset" lockdown (as seen as an option in Tessellate). Here, after X frames, the piece harddrops and locks no matter what.

how this explains anything?

I'll PM you about it.

[Wojtek]

Ah, I see. In my opinion, it's unnecessary and redundant to make a rule against loopy stuff. It's so time consuming (and piece consuming) to build loops that you'll never see it used in a multiplayer (or high-scoring single player) mode. Why bother?

kitaru's I-piece against wall loop don't require any builds. and its not just about loops, moving piece up should not be possible at all. In SRS, you can movie piece to crazy places if you keep mashing rotate.

sorry for beeing unclear, i edited my post a bit. step reset is not possible in srs because pieces can kick up, if this kind of kicks is limited, then it will be possible. but that was only digression.

also:
[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]
[1:24:57 PM] Wojtek Kowaluk: like in tgm3 ars
[/quote]

[chopin]

Well, as it's been said, you can just have a piece lock within a certain time.

[caffeine]

sorry for beeing unlear, i edited my post a bit. step reset is not possible in srs because pieces can kick up, if this kind of kicks is limited, then it will be possible. but that was only digression.

TGM3 added the "only kick up once" because they also added upwards kicks (for I-tetromino and T-tetromino). This stops the infinity possibility for kick, step reset, kick, step reset. However, changing SRS to step reset + 1 floorkick wouldn't exclude the possibility of infinitely hovering with I-tetromino (which I think may be what you're talking about when referring to Kitaru's example (I am unable to find his post on this thread anywhere)). To close that loophole, as I suggested you could do a spawn-reset type lockdown.

"and its not just about loops, moving piece up should not be possible at all. "

If that's the case, we're now talking about wallkicks, not lockdown. Tons of wallkicks kick upwards, and you'd have to do away with the current rotation system completely to meet that ideal. (I'm not totally opposed to this, but I just wanted to separate "challenging 20G" from "looping" from "don't kick up." They're different problems with different solutions.)

[Wojtek]

yeah maybe i mixed too many things. limiting wallkicks that kick up may will fix moving piece up. I don't see why that wont also fix I howering, but i may be wrong. challengin 20g was merely digression.

[XaeL]

yeah maybe i mixed too many things. limiting wallkicks that kick up may will fix moving piece up. I don't see why that wont also fix I howering, but i may be wrong. challengin 20g was merely digression.

limiting wallkicks that kick up make the code ugly

[Kitaru]

Someone remind me to link up my old SRS critique later. (i.e. I mean myself and I'm leaving a reminder but hey other people can get on my case as well.)