Want a more challenging 1P mode in Tetris Friends?

[Kitaru]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]KevinDDR @tetrisfriends I think quite a few people would enjoy a harder 1P mode! Thoughts?

tetrisfriends @KevinDDR r u thinking "Master" mode? You're the first to request, but if others want a harder 1P mode, this is a great place to voice it.

KitaruTC @tetrisfriends Kevin's request isn't the first, others long ago. Think more Tetris Grand Master than Zone Master, and TGM1 hard not TGM3.[/quote]
Do you feel that there is a lack of challenge in the mode offerings in today's official Tetris games? If so, hop on over to the Tetris Friends twitter and fire them a tweet about it.

Personally, I've been disappointed in the lack of more demanding modes in guideline games. The difficulty cap of most of the modes is too low for them to really last for the long haul. Score attacking is cool too, but I think they can expand their horizons. I think challenge is something they've been neglecting a bit and that plenty of people would be interested in seeing more in that department. If you feel the same way, take a moment to let them know and maybe give a brief description of something you'd be looking for in a new challenge/survival mode.

[EnFuego]

What do you suggest they do to make it more challenging? Starting at level 20 speeds, Less time to lock down pieces, lines being added on the bottom every certain time interval, a double bag randomizer, time requirement for levels and the invisable mode are cool things they can add.

[I_AM_SAND]

What do you suggest they do to make it more challenging? Starting at level 20 speeds, Less time to lock down pieces, lines being added on the bottom every certain time interval, a double bag randomizer, time requirement for levels and the invisable mode are cool things they can add.

all that in one mode.

[tepples]

What do you suggest they do to make it more challenging? SHIRASE

Face it: that's what you meant

But one problem is the platform. Can Flash Player guarantee 60 fps on typical PC hardware?

[Kitaru]

Switch double bag for Memory 4 and we have a deal. ;)

I wonder if they'll warm up to using a different rotation system for it? They did -- to an extent -- for 1989, so maybe they could also mix things up for this supposed challenge mode? Past that, 1989 also got step reset lock delay's foot in the door. I definitely think that'd be a good match for a harder mode as well.

[tepples]

Past that, 1989 also got step reset lock delay's foot in the door.

That or move reset with time t and entry reset with 4t or so, as seen in Tetris Party. But then entry reset in a 20G game is almost the same as Rhythm in $some_other_game.

[Kitaru]

Face it: that's what you meant

But one problem is the platform. Can Flash Player guarantee 60 fps on typical PC hardware?

Probably not. This is part of the reason why I suggested something closer to "TGM1 Hard" than "TGM3 Hard." The game simply won't run smooth enough on most computers to support that wild Shirase-style gameplay.

The other reason I suggested something nearer to TGM1 Hard is because they are going to have to take gradual steps in broadening the difficulty curve. TGM1 is accessible enough for casual players and a good fit for intermediate ones. Dropping the Shirase bomb on TetrisFriends.Com probably won't get an especially great response, haha.

Now, perhaps if they do something like Tetris: New Century's Extra mode and have something endless that starts at TGM1 Hard and gradually progresses up toward TGM2 Hard, TGM3 Hard, and Nigh Impossible. That could possibly work, haha.

[EnFuego]

Maybe something like shirase but they shouldn't do a clone of any TGM game. If I wanted to play one of those versions I could play it somewhere else. It could be like TGM1 with the speed curve but should be different. Survival is fun because it is fairly unique. There is some stuff they could copy from TGM games but they should put their own spin on it.

[Kitaru]

Right, I hear you there. I'm just using "TGMx Hard" as a way to sort of put a ballpark on where things should be as far as difficulty goes. Also, TGM has many great examples of challenging modes, so it makes sense to draw at least some influence from what they've done.

I will say, however, that I want to see TGM proper released outside of Japan at some point.

[jujube]

step reset could definitely work with SRS, but it needs to reset when the piece actually steps down, not when the rotation box steps down. for those not familiar with the basic rotation tables for SRS and ARS, here they are:
http://harddrop.com/wiki/images/3/3d/SRS-pieces.png
http://harddrop.com/wiki/images/b/b5/Tgm_b...description.png

notice that a lot of the time SRS pieces are suspended above the bottom of the rotation box. ARS step reset causes lock delay to reset every time the rotation box drops, so if you're using ARS and rotate a piece so that the bottommost segment of the piece is in a lower row than the bottommost segment before, it usually means the rotation box has fallen and lock delay will reset. what this means to the player is without even knowing how the basic rotation works, if the piece "falls" you will most likely have some extra time to control it before it locks. the only exception is with the I piece, as you can see it's suspended in its horizontal state in ARS. after basic rotation (reaching 2 rows lower) it would have to fall an additional row to reset the lock delay.

when the exact same lock delay system is used with SRS you have a lot more scenarios where a piece falls but lock delay doesn't reset. with the S piece for example, if the piece is rotated either direction from its original stance and only "falls" to the bottom of the rotation box (falling 1 row in the playing field) the lock delay won't reset, because the rotation box hasn't dropped. it appears the piece is stepping down but there is no step lock delay reset. the simple logic behind the system breaks down when you use it with SRS.

with SRS it would make a lot more sense to use a system that has a similar or identical effect as step reset, but with the lock delay resetting when a piece visually drops in the playing field, without regard for where the rotation box is. you would get roughly the same logic and challenge that you have with ARS lock delay.

i'm not sure exactly how Tetris 1989 lock delay works because the gravity really isn't fast enough to need it  and i haven't done any testing. but if there were an official 20G SRS mode designed to have ARS-style lock delay i really hope they take these differences between the rotation systems into account and use a lock delay system that makes sense visually to the player.

p.s. if there's ARE there should be IRS

[zaphod77]

They say less than 6% of their users can beat level 15 in marathon mode.  

With an audience like that...   it's no wonder they don't make something harder...

I think any competent tetris player should be able to beat that mode, provided their computer is handling the gameplay well.

[Magnanimous]

But one problem is the platform. Can Flash Player guarantee 60 fps on typical PC hardware?

Unfortunately, Flash does tend to lag at higher speeds(and especially with TF's flashy graphics); they could probably make the effort to upgrade to Java, since that'd make the existing modes run better anyway. Most things would have to be reprogrammed, but they seem to be going through a site update as it is... They might as well get off Flash.

And I think TF should "drop the Shirase bomb", personally. Since the site seems to be made up of mostly newbs anyway, it'd be fun to watch them panic at the sight of TGM excellence.

[Zircean]

Big wall of text

You, sir, have just won an internet.

However, this still doesn't solve the problem of climbing: if you can step pieces up, you could potentially extend the lock delay for a long time. It would be better than what they have right now by orders of magnitude though.

And I think TF should "drop the Shirase bomb", personally. Since the site seems to be made up of mostly newbs anyway, it'd be fun to watch them panic at the sight of TGM excellence.

TGM excellence should be delivered in doses, I think. Dropping Shirase on them would make them run away in terror, which is not what we want

I admit it would be hilarious, though XD

[Kitaru]

However, this still doesn't solve the problem of climbing: if you can step pieces up, you could potentially extend the lock delay for a long time. It would be better than what they have right now by orders of magnitude though.

My proposal is that you a) take jujube's "lowest block height" step reset, b) give a limited number of resets for cases when the pieces bounding box is pushed upward a la Ti-ARS or Blockbox BRS, and c) require that a piece fall past its lowest recorded height to trigger a reset a la Tetris New Century. This way, you can use the floor kicks when necessary and not have the piece unexpectedly lock on you, but you can't exploit a repeatable kick loop to endlessly reset lock delay.

[jujube]

if you can step pieces up, you could potentially extend the lock delay for a long time.

that definitely wouldn't be good. they could track the lowest row a piece has reached while active, and the lock delay wouldn't reset unless the piece dropped below that row.