Help Solving Perfect Clears (Again)

Started by Shuey, June 09, 2016, 07:05:21 PM

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Shuey

June 09, 2016, 07:05:21 PM
I'm trying to build a perfect clear from the following sequence:
[fumen]v115@vhAAqWdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAA[/fumen]

I've come up with at least one solution, but only when I change the sequence of the pieces :-/... so I've not been able to officially solve it yet

Okey_Dokey

#1
June 09, 2016, 10:48:27 PM
I suppose you mean without Hold. You need softdrop to solve this sequence.

[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKXKYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAARwBRsB3kBMmBlgB6tBOpBTnBXtBAAA[/fumen]

Shuey

#2
June 10, 2016, 05:03:52 AM
Dang, nice Okey_Dokey!!  Actually, I didn't even mean "without hold".  I couldn't find a way at all.  The method I found earlier involved using deep drop and I not only have never used one before, but they "don't count" when considered in my perfect clear studies .

Thanks for the crazy quick solve!  If you know another solution to this one (with hold if it helps), I'd definitely like to see another!   If not, thanks for this one .

XaeL

#3
June 10, 2016, 08:28:36 AM
Quote from: Shuey
Dang, nice Okey_Dokey!!  Actually, I didn't even mean "without hold".  I couldn't find a way at all.  The method I found earlier involved using deep drop and I not only have never used one before, but they "don't count" when considered in my perfect clear studies .

Thanks for the crazy quick solve!  If you know another solution to this one (with hold if it helps), I'd definitely like to see another!   If not, thanks for this one .
okeydokey probably has a program that solves these



QuoteLike many setups here, it is useful if your opponent doesn't move and you get 4 Ts in a row.

Shuey

#4
June 10, 2016, 08:46:27 AM
That's partially why I'm confused, lol.  I tried using his program to find a solution for this particular puzzle and couldn't find one  (unless I'm not using it correctly - it found 5 solutions, but none of them fit the requirements of the goal).

Okey_Dokey

#5
June 10, 2016, 03:29:22 PM Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 10:01:54 AM by Okey_Dokey
Quote from: XaeLokeydokey probably has a program that solves these
Woah, a doubter of my mad PC skillz?! I don't need a program for that!

Quote from: ShueyThat's partially why I'm confused, lol.  I tried using his program to find a solution for this particular puzzle and couldn't find one  (unless I'm not using it correctly - it found 5 solutions, but none of them fit the requirements of the goal).
The program I posted assumed hold was at disposal and required an input sequence of 11 pieces. So, not sure how you used it.

Quote from: ShueyThanks for the crazy quick solve!  If you know another solution to this one (with hold if it helps), I'd definitely like to see another!   If not, thanks for this one .
I can post all solutions that differ after 9 placed pieces.
edit: I used the following program: http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7588

softdrop + kicks, without hold

the one I already posted:
[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKXKYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAARwBRsB3kBMmBlgB6tBOpBTnBXtBAAA[/fumen]

another path to the field after 9 placed pieces exists (maybe even 2 paths):
[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKXKYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAxxBxsBXrBMpBlrBipBGsBTtB3qBAAA[/fumen]

[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhK3KYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAxxBxkB3rBUhBFiBCoB2pBToB3pBAAA[/fumen]

[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKXLYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAxpBpoB3hB0sBlgBaoBOpBzpBXsBAAA[/fumen]

basically the same solution as above:
[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhK3LYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAARqBJkBXiBUtBFhB6oBupBTqB3sBAAA[/fumen]

[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKvNYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAxuBxqB3kB0sBFsBikBGoBzlB3rBAAA[/fumen]

hard drop only, with hold

The last inserted piece is either T or L. There are no solutions where the O or J is placed last.

at least another path to the field after 9 placed pieces exists:
[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKxOYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAxpBXtB0rB3nB6tB2qBTkBXnBFrBAAA[/fumen]

[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKxQYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAxsB3qBsmBXhBipB+tBznBvpBFqBAAA[/fumen]

many other paths to the field after 9 placed pieces exist:
[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKxQYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAHmBvpBUtBFlBxnBGoBzmB3qBipBAAA[/fumen]

[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhKxRYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAxsBXqBUmB3kBSsBOpBToB3rBlqBAAA[/fumen]

[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@vhK3LYdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBToAVBJujFD0iHg?CzAAAAxnB3qBxkBUhBypBGtBTpBXtBFsBAAA[/fumen]

Shuey

#6
June 10, 2016, 07:12:51 PM Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 07:15:54 PM by Shuey
Good grief!   You DO have mad PC skills, I don't doubt that one bit .  What I CAN'T understand though is how the heck you are able to find SO MANY solutions and seemingly so quickly! O_o

Yep, I used your program correctly.  What I meant when I said that I wasn't sure if I WAS using it correctly is because prior to seeing your solution and XaeL's comment, I hadn't tried entering only 10 pieces to see if it would work (I just tried and confirmed what you said; that it won't work without 11 pieces, lol).

Thanks for all the extra solutions, wow!

Here's a new one that I truly don't know if it's possible (even WITH a program to calculate it).  Holds ARE allowed, but all pieces must be used since there are only a total of 10:

[fumen]v115@vhAAgWdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBaoAVBKN8LCJ9aF?DqAAAA[/fumen]

Okey_Dokey

#7
June 10, 2016, 10:42:19 PM
My program also had a bug, where it thought a deepdrop solution could be accessible with kicks: It considered a piece location invalid, if it was entirely above the playfield. For example for a 3-rows high matrix, it thought this J piece placement was possible (frame 1) via kicking it down from the location in frame 2 (not entirely above matrix), because the upkick (frame 3) was considered invalid (entirely above matrix).

[fumen]http://harddrop.com/fumen/?m115@HhI8AeI8AeH8Le+NnvhBGjf+ef[/fumen]

Quote from: Shuey[fumen]v115@vhAAgWdAFLDmClcJSAVDEHBEooRBaoAVBKN8LCJ9aF?DqAAAA[/fumen]
My mad PC skillz (AKA my program) tell me, that this sequence is not perfect clearable (with hold & softdrop & kicks). So congratz for finding a mean sequence that doesn't involve exactly 1 T piece. Note that this sequence is PCable with hold, if you specify the next piece as L or T piece (which would show up next with bag randomizer).

Shuey

#8
June 11, 2016, 03:26:33 PM
Okey:  This is bitter sweet ... On one hand, I'm surprised that I finally found a legitimate sequence from bag that isn't solvable (at least that anyone knows of so far) - But on the other hand I'm really bummed because this is strong proof that there might be more instances than we originally thought where bag sequences are NOT PC'able .

myndzi

#9
June 12, 2016, 03:42:00 PM
I'm confused, does http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7565 this one not count?

perfectclear

#10
June 12, 2016, 04:28:12 PM
Quote from: myndzi
I'm confused, does http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7565 this one not count?

it counts. I still wonder if my original proposition is a sufficient condition (obviously, it was just shown not necessary)
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