Randomizers

[kbr]

What's your thoughts on the current guideline randomizer? Is it too easy? too hard? Would you like to see it changed? It currently is set at a single bag randomness. What about double bag? Tetris Ultimate has a double bag setting...what's your thoughts? All opinions appreciated!

[muf]

http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showt...amp;#entry83947

nuff said

[Sisu]

personally, i think 7-bag is the antichrist of tetris.  

besides that, you could say it has been "solved" at this point:

it's time to move on.  

[Blink]

I dislike single bag randomizer because modes such as Ultra become nothing more than ST-stacking races.

Tetris stacking overall has become really predictable now as a result of bag randomizer.  There are no droughts, or moments of suspense from risky T-spin setups.

I haven't played with double bag enough, but it sounds like an improvement from single bag.

[Sisu]

reminder, you can play "double bag" here: http://tetris.com/play-tetris/

[Question_Mark]

My opinion: Bag, the way it is commonly used, is somewhat literally a game-changer. It can be used to make Tetris easier, yes, but the extent to which it is predictable also makes possible some things that simply cannot happen in other randomisers.

For example, that predictability lends itself to such things as T-spin setups and several Playing Forever techniques. Can Bag be abused? Sure. But it can also be used to do legitimately that which can't be done under other randomisers. Spontaneous on-the-fly stacking these are not - but I'd say they're worthy of being regarded as a completely different approach to Tetris. It's not so much about clearing lines as it is placing pieces in "interesting" (YMMV) patterns.

It's the Force - ubiquitous, and able to be used for good or evil.  You know that the next seven pieces have one each of IJLOSTZ. How will you use that knowledge?

You decide.

[Alexandra]

The majority of the users will say that the single bag randomizer is "boring" and "typical" and "mastered" etc. But I don't think that is true at all.. From what I've seen for the Xbox TU release, there is a long line clear delay. With this line clear delay, I doubt any match would be fun to play if it was a bag similar to Cultris.
I think the line clear delay is really important in determining whether to use single bag or whatever.

I've played many different clients (really. I doubt there are more than a handful of people that can say they've consistently tried different clients as much as I have.) and I still don't agree with the single bag randomizer is typical and mastered. Sure, in theory it is easy to say it is easy but I have yet to see a player that can go more than 2.0 attacks per line consistently.
For single player mode, I guess it can be boring and stuff for seasoned players. But I remember when I first learned marathon mode, and how much fun it was to try the sz stacking. Even though I don't play it much now, I still think it is fun to try and set up certain fields.. even if it is redundant.

I think people are quick to dismiss this issue with a "well it is proven in theory that single bag can be mastered" but I've not seen someone master it (though ajanba and mattyabar are close). So.. you are all talk. ^-'

@TetrisUltimate I think a similar release to the Xbox would be nice if you took out all the bugs ^-'... I think TU Xbox was 70%bug and 30%tetris. Wasn't it? And I hear it still isn't fixed.
But I like the music. 6person room would be nice.
Asian language support (Japanese, Korean, Chinese) would be nice as well.
A customizable avatar that is cute like the Tetris Friends avatars or maybe we can upload our own thumbnail? would be nice as well..
Elo ranking maybe?
Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooool. Hope TUPC comes out soon! (with minimal bugs! really, please don't release unless the bugs are solved ;_;... the hype would backfire.)

[bigwig]

For nearly any single player game, the TGM randomizer is the best. It does its job of preventing excessive duplicates and draughts with minimal interference or side effects. It avoids the Cultris problem of getting OJ OJ ST ST which happens way too much. The only argument here is memory 3 or memory 4.

For multiplayer with holed garbage bag may be better because it's a predictable element paired with the unpredictable garbage.

The problem with bag comes from garbage with excessive repeating holes or bombs from FB tetris that, in practice, gives the leading player a greater advantage.

I'll chime in 3 pages from now to disagree with people.

[caffeine]

Changing from bag will probably end Messi4h TSTs, and probably hurt static single bag TSD openings, ST stacking, and static TSD/TST combo openings like DT cannon. I'm guessing comparable play will be seen with double bag. It just won't be as fixed. I suppose if center 4-wide isn't addressed (even with having line clear delay), then we'll see a lot more combo openers since it's still easy with a different randomizer.

I wouldn't think double bag + hold (or TGM's randomizer for that matter) would change anything for 90% of players. Might get slightly longer droughts/floods, might at times go a little longer without that piece you need most, but overall it's still gonna be really easy. This won't bring Tetris to its masochistic roots, when players were faced with extremely challenging sequences and no hold to abate them.

[Alexandra]

テトアルについて、全体的に見なおして欲しい。まずは 死亡判定から、頂上まで到達しても死亡しないのはおか しいと思う、これがダメだとろくに試合もできない。こ こをまず最初に改善して欲しい。後無駄に豪華なエフェ クト、これのせいで重くなってしまっている、もう少し シンプルにしたほうが試合もやりやすいと思います。い いなと思う所はチューニングがある所、これは良いと思 います。まずこれ以上に人の意見聞かないで作るのはお かしいと思うｗ　後対戦が始まる前、シャッフルされる のはいいけれど、対戦始まる時は一番左固定にして欲し い。もしくはシャッフル自体無くしたほうが良いんじゃ ないかなと。取り敢えずはまあこんなところですね、自 分はプレイしてないので見た限りしか言えないですが、 プレイした人たちはもっと変えて欲しいところもあると 思うので自分が言えるのはこれぐらいです。最後にPC版    発売して欲しいです。その前にこのシステムを改善し    欲しいですが、この改善された上でPS４やXBOXのアップ    ート、そしてしっかりアップデートのした後プレイし    人たちの意見も聞いて、それでシステムがしっかりし    るよ、と言う意見が多数あった上でPC版発売して欲し    なと思います。以上長文失礼しました


まともな企業にテトリスを作っていただきたい

まともな企業様がテトリスを拾うかどうか...

意見聞かずに作ってたのか(呆れ)
無駄なエフェクト使って重くしたり致命的なバグ残したりパズルゲームはどうなってるんだ

[MicroBlizz]

I agree with caffeine. With any game, I feel players will eventually find new ways to play it even if the game's mechanics are altered. Especially since Tetris is a puzzle game, changing the bag in my opinion will just offer players a new opportunity for develop other static strategies/openings/set-ups/etc that work with double bag.
If making the game more difficult and less static is the goal here I think a revamp of single player and multiplayer modes in addition to changing the bag would be more effective.

[XaeL]

I think (bag -1) would be the best randomizer.
First, generate a bag of 7, but do not deal it out.
JIZLOTS

Then generate 7 bags, But for each bag subtract one from the original bag of 7:
(J)IZLOTS
J(I)ZLOTS
JI(Z)LOTS
JIZ(L)OTS
JIZL(O)TS
JIZLO(T)S
JIZLOT(S)

This increases droughts but keeps the (long term distribution) exactly the same: 1/7.

[perfectclear]

I like xael's system as it (mostly) deals with an issue of two bag: if people are playing at high apm and you get an I piece draught, with the current garbage system, you will die without having an opportunity for counterplay. with xael's system that wouldn't happen as often, but we would still get some of the diversity offered by a different bag system.

[Alexandra]

I just played with double bag on nullpomino. It is fun. O,.O....... really no joke. It is very fun! omg! lol! the tspins are harder for sure as well as combos. They're hard but certainly doable. But more importantly, it is fun! I don't know if I'd be able to play it with such a big line clear delay though.. but that might just be my ineptitude.

[Kitaru]

In Tetris Ultimate, it's clearly nothing more than a disadvantage -- everyone will stick to the default and have access to setups, less variance in waits, etc.. If it were the standard instead, my gut instinct is that I might actually be less inclined to play Guideline games than I am already. I've never used 14 Bag, but I'm very skeptical of it's value compared to other existing options. caffeine is right that it wouldn't make the game "hard" by any stretch, but I feel like its properties with regards to floods and droughts would make it feel sort of gross.

If you get two unfortunate shuffles in succession, you could end up with something like [... SZSZ][SZSZ ...] or close to it. Similarly, you can end up with [II ...][ ...II], for a maximum wait of 24 between like-pieces (as opposed to 12 with a standard 7 Bag). The droughting behavior isn't hard by any stretch -- an interval 24 still isn't especially long -- for merely clearing Marathon and the like, but has the potential to be very annoying in other situations. Consider a Sprint with line clear delay where you need 100% tetrises to minimize time loss -- a 14 Bag opens up more potential for an excessive wait that forces you to skim and lose time instead.

As previously mentioned, one potential benefit (depending on your perspective) is that it would throw off 7 Bag patterns/setups, but Memory randomizers also have this property without some of the potential "weirdness" of 14 Bag.

The randomizer thread on TC touched on some of the properties of other Bag sizes, including 14 Bag, 7+1 Bag, etc..