Create your own twist setups

[Someone2knoe]

[fumen]110@7eMReITfBcgBXNPdABz9TAyE88AwESeDwow2BFbcYC?EoSTASY9SCpAAAAAwNRAq8WeDjhceEhVyaE0Sg/DKAAAANc?ByaB+Rc+jBqSBkzcsiBAAA[/fumen]

Or you can use my z teleport

[fumen]110@7eKReITfBcgBXNPdABz9TAyE88AwESeDwow2BFbcYC?EoSTASY9SCpAAAAAwNRAq8WeDjhceEhVyaE0Sg/DKAAAANc?ByaB+Rc+jBM5csCd[/fumen]

[jujube]

nice first bag setups myndzi

[Someone2knoe]

I attempted to add some 180 twists and teleports to the wiki under the list of twists.

I haven ever worked with a wiki before so I'm new to a lot of things. Let me know if there are any errors and please add in the things I didn't put in yet or I don't know about. I will add them later if you can't.

wiki link

[NoManual]

looks sweet S2K

[meow]

oh god, 180 twists in the wiki... have fun. don't forget the O twists and the barrier jumping Is in <insert game> and <insert rotation system>.

[jujube]

great job S2K, looks really good

[myndzi]

I attempted to add some 180 twists and teleports to the wiki under the list of twists.

I haven ever worked with a wiki before so I'm new to a lot of things. Let me know if there are any errors and please add in the things I didn't put in yet or I don't know about. I will add them later if you can't.

wiki link

Nice work, but I'm not sure it's a good idea. I really think Nullpo's 180 twists should be revised from basically "try everything underneath" to something more sensible. If that happens, I guess we can just nuke the page, but I wouldn't want someone to waste a lot of work on it before that.

I'm saying this assuming that many of them are Nullpo-only, but I am unsure. Does anybody have suggestions as to what 180 twists ought to be? I have been thinking that a simple left-right check could allow for a lot of the "sliding" twists with S and Z and I, but I suppose T would have to kick down at least once...

[Someone2knoe]

Its likely that some of the twists would stay the same if they changed it. I don't think they should change it other than the teleports though. A lot of people use the spins that I listed and are accustomed to them but I don't know anyone but myself who has used a teleport. They aren't even practical in vs. The rest are very usable in vs.

Either way my effort won't be wasted. If they got rid of it it can be in the wiki on a different page for old versions of nullpomino twists.

[chopin]

I vote for 180 spins being only natural rotations. Pretty much how they are on KoS but without the weird 180 kicks. 180 button will also help with finesse and eliminate the double-rotate inefficiency. I also don't think that 180 spins should be able to clear Triple Spins. This ability on NP is a bit overpowered. Doubles are fine though.

[jujube]

fun with the gray piece, aka iwasbored.
[fumen]110@7eJHaIscBmgBJ6chkBDaB6DdSoBAAA9eBtbC3qeAgb?rbB3ibA3lbC3geAgbrbFAjbB3ibA3lbC3WeAgbtbA3mbBAh?bBAnbAAmbB3nbA3obA36dAgbtbAApbAA8bA3xbA3wdAgb3b?AAA3nbAAgbA3mbAAgbA3mbAAgbA3mbAAA3nbAAA3vdAgb4b?AAA3nbAAgbA3mbAAgbA3mbAAgbA3mbAAA3nbAAA3udAgb5b?AApbAA8bA3xbA3kdAgbDcAAA3nbAAgbA3mbAAgbA3mbAAgb?A3mbAAA3nbAAA3jdAgbEcAAobBAobAAybA3obA3nbA3obA3?PdAgbYcAAobBAobAAybA3obA3nbA3obA37cAgbscAAobBAo?bAAybA3obA3nbA3obA3ncAgbAdAAobBAobAAybA3obA3nbA?3obA3TcAgbUdAAobBAobAAybA3obA3nbA3obA3/bAgbodAA?pbAA8bA3xbA31bAgbydAAobAAMRkbC3BAjbD3pbAAUKnbAA?1bAgbwblzMdsslbA3obA3nbB3hbUKmbAAlbAAhbCAlbA3Bc?AgbwbcDoblzkcss8bUKlbAAobAAnbBAjbD3nbB3gbAAobAA?BcAgbxbcDkzmbcDoblz8bss8bUKccFAjbB3ibA3lbC3CcAg?bxbkznbkzobcDoU8bUKEdFAjbB3ibA3lbC34bAgbFcUKybs?szcA3obB3nbB3nbB3kbCAgbBAlbAAgbAA4bAgbxbdDmbcDg?bkzmblzybUKybssfcAAobBAkbC3hbA3lbA3pbAAobAA5bAg?b7bdDmbcDgbkzmblz8bUKybssccFAjbB3ibA3lbC3CcAgbF?cdDmbcDgbkzmblzGcUKybssScFAjbB3ibA3lbC34bAgbPcd?DmbcDgbkzmblzQcUKybssjbA3obB3nbB3nbB3kbCAgbBAlb?AAgbAA4bAgbZcdDmbcDgbkzmblzacUKjbAAobBAibssgbC3?hbA3lbA3pbAAobAA5bAgbjcdDmbcDgbkzmblzkcUKgbFAjb?B3ibA3hbssibC3CcAgbtcdDmbcDgbkzmblzmcFAhbUKgbB3?ibA3lbC3ibss0bAgb3cdDmbcDgbkzmblzBcA3obB3nbB3nb?B3kbCAgbBAlbAAgbAAibUKobssqbAgbBddDmbcDgbkzmblz?3bAAobBAkbC3hbA3lbA3pbAAobAAjbssobUKqbAgbLddDmb?cDgbkzmblz+bFAjbB3ibA3lbC3ibssobUK0bAgbVddDmbcD?gbkzmblz+bFAhbssgbB3ibA3hbUKibC34bAgbfddDmbcDgb?kzibA3iblzjbB3nbB3nbB3ibUKgbCAgbBAhbssibAAgbAA4?bAgbpddDibAAibcDgbkzibBAhblzgbC3hbA3lbA3kbssUKi?bAAibssgbUKibAAjbssUKzbAgbzddDmbcDgbkzFAgblzgbB?3ibA3hbUKsshbC3hbUKgbssnbUKsszbAgb9ddDmbcDgbkzF?AgblzgbB3ibA3lbC34bAgbHedDmbdDnbkzoblzobkzqbAAA?7eAAAAwe8epbAAAwe8epbAAAleA3pbcDpbAAAae8epbAA0b?AAAPeYipbEY/bAAAEe0lpboUKcAAA5dQppbMRVcAAAudssp?bwNgcAAAjdIwpbUKrcAAAYdkzpb4G2cAAANdA3pbcDBdAAA?Ed8enbAAMdAAA7cYinbEYVdAAAyc0lnboUedAAApcQpnbMR?ndAAAgcssnbwNwdAAAXcIwnbUK5dAAAOckznb4GCeAAAFcA?3nbcDLeAAA8b8enbAAUeAAAxbYipbEYdeAAAxboUoeAAApb?IwhbIwgbIwhbIwoeAAAwbIwhbIwhbIwgbIwhbIweeAAAqbI?wjbIwpbIwhbIwhbIwgbIwhbIwUeAAAqb4Gkb4GibIwjbIwp?bIwhbIwhbIwgbIwhbIwKeAAAqbIwjb4Gjb4Gkb4GibIwjbI?wpbIwhbIwhbIwgbIwhbIwAeAAA7c5lib0llb0lgb0lnb1lh?bA3hbA3hb1lnb1lgbA3lb1lhbE3gb1ljbRphb0lgb0llb0l?ib5l/bAgb[/fumen]

[Someone2knoe]

I vote for 180 spins being only natural rotations. Pretty much how they are on KoS but without the weird 180 kicks. 180 button will also help with finesse and eliminate the double-rotate inefficiency. I also don't think that 180 spins should be able to clear Triple Spins. This ability on NP is a bit overpowered. Doubles are fine though.

I think when they made the 180 kicks they had some sort of logic to make it similar to the single rotate kicks. Like they just followed the same trend. But the result was pretty drastic twists. It isn't necessarily a bad thing at this point it is just different. I hope they stay with it because I'm getting pretty good at it.

I would like to see a line send system that works like this though:

Spin Double = 3 Lines sent
Tetris= 4
Spin Triple = 5

It makes more sense to me with all-spins. In order for spins to be effective you would have to have a lot of mastery over them. Tetris set ups would still be valid, and I think they should be a very common line send (the game is called tetris). Right now I often don't tetris unless i'm downstacking and I want to add a bit more.

PS. Added more 180 Twists to the wiki, I need to add J/L but let me know if I missed anything with I, T, S, Z.

I would be very excited if there are some I don't know about.

[larrytetris]

A very intuitive infinite TSD:
[fumen]110@7eC1dInfBMaBDeF3jbF3jbF3jbF3kbE3pbiQB0cE3k?bE3kbE3kbE3kbE3kbE3kbE3kbE3kbE3kbE3HcfSB7eN9gBZ?VBFgBmbBMQBZNBtfBFgBiaBPSB9gBZVBFgBAwNHAFvQrD0F?hAA[/fumen]

Edit: more efficient opener -
[fumen]110@7eCDXI1lBMVB5dF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3kbE3pbAAA7?eAAAA[/fumen]


TKI transfer:
[fumen]110@7eHBeIEcBKfBPdBWoBDeBFgBveB/dF3jbE3kbD3lbD?3mbB3wbMcB7eCliBGeBsCPDAFvYCA[/fumen]


Infinite TST transfer:
[fumen]110@OdA3nbB3hbG3ibG3gbI3hbH3gbI3gbI3hbH3gbJ3gb?G3pbtzVcANSEbEpibTAySzTASo0JEmOJ5D0488AQ+TxC7eD?taBFQPpAUNKSASo78AY+TxCFbsiDP2W5DuQ0dEpXpTASYRr?DDD2JEF388AZAAAAAAAiaBXeF3jbF3zbPCPDAFvYCA4dcDo?bdDobcDMcAwNpAUNKSASo78AY+TxCFbsiDP2W5DuQ0dEpXp?TASYRrDDD2JEF388AZAAAA[/fumen]

4-wide transfer:
[fumen]110@pbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jb?F3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbF3jbG3gbB3pbA4G?pbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbF?AjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFAjbFABcveB/dF3jbF3jbF3BcAAA?7eBGUBsIB[/fumen]

How to get a high score on TF Ultra:
[fumen]110@5cI3ibH3gbA3gbB3gbC3gbC3gbE3gbH3ibH3gbA3ib?A3hbD3hbA3ibC3gbA3gbA3gbA3ibA3gbC3gbB3gbB3gbG3h?bA3hbG3pbBiH7eHEgAKjAWsADiAPhAFkAviAMgAHcF3jbE3?kbD3lbD3mbB3odlmA7eCGiAsWA5TAzbE3kbE3kbE3kbE3Ee?NmA7eBlmAAAA[/fumen]

Yes I understand you need 2 bags every 10 pieces, so you will indeed be stacking to the left frequently with T-pieces.

[Noogy]

wow i like this alot

[jujube]

A very intuitive infinite TSD:

good stuff, what's your best ultra score with that method?

[myndzi]

Its likely that some of the twists would stay the same if they changed it. I don't think they should change it other than the teleports though. A lot of people use the spins that I listed and are accustomed to them but I don't know anyone but myself who has used a teleport. They aren't even practical in vs. The rest are very usable in vs.

Either way my effort won't be wasted. If they got rid of it it can be in the wiki on a different page for old versions of nullpomino twists.

Whether people are used to them or not has little to do with whether they should be the way they are or not... anyway, I revised the 180 kick table some yesterday for 7.4.1 and on. There are a couple things I'd like to fix, but can't until I can think of a good way to identify when a 180 kicks a piece back to where it started. I'd *like* to check if the piece occupies the same space, but that is actually pretty complicated to do; it might fall back to "if the piece is S Z or I and the rotation is R, ignore this kick" :\

New kick table is currently like this, for anyone who can read it:

Code Select Expand


Non-I:
                {{ 1, 0},{-1, 0},{ 0,-1},{ 0, 1},{ 0,-2},{ 0, 2}},      // 0>>2─┐
                {{ 0, 1},{ 0,-1},{ 0,-2},{ 0, 2},{-1, 0},{ 1, 0}},      // 1>>3─┼┐
                {{-1, 0},{ 1, 0},{ 0, 1},{ 0,-1},{ 0, 2},{ 0,-2}},      // 2>>0─┘│
                {{ 0, 1},{ 0,-1},{ 0,-2},{ 0, 2},{ 1, 0},{-1, 0}}       // 3>>1──┘
I:
                {{-1, 0},{-2, 0},{ 1, 0},{ 2, 0}},                      // 0>>2─┐
                {{ 0, 1},{ 0,-1},{ 0,-2},{ 0, 2}},                      // 1>>3─┼┐
                {{ 1, 0},{ 2, 0},{-1, 0},{-2, 0}},                      // 2>>0─┘│
                {{ 0, 1},{ 0,-1},{ 0,-2},{ 0, 2}},                      // 3>>1──┘


It leaves many of the Nullpo twists the same, but eliminates all the 3-deep kicks and most teleports. (I can't really get rid of the T teleport I discovered while reading the table, but it's so impractical that it hardly matters; I can make it more difficult, but that requires the aforementioned same-place check).

The twists generated with this table are either shortcuts like the Z-slip 180s or useful but modest kicks that can only be achieved with 180. The vertical orientations kick up and down first; the horizontal orientations kick left and right first. This is because of the same-place thing: if a Z was in the "left" state and you 180 and it kicks left, that kick will always succeed, disabling everything after it.

I fumened a bunch of them on IRC, but I'm not sure they are accurate anymore; if someone would like to try and exploit this table (or, have you found a kick that wouldn't work that you think deserves to be there?) please let me know!

Edit: I spot a problem already, I need to make some of those mirror each other properly...