The end of the tetris puzzle

[clincher]

All Tetris is multiplayer in a sense, even score competitions.

Yeah sorry I meant versus mode

[KevinDDR]

I don't care if Tetris is a puzzle or not. Getting fucked over by a truly random randomizer that doesn't have the same seed for both players is retarded; anyone who honestly thinks this is a way to make the game better should reconsider.

I like Hold and 3 piece preview because I'm bad at Tetris.

Having fully random piece/garbage sequences that aren't the same for both players is a horrible horrible idea. It's just inherently unfair.

Spawn, have you ever played TGM? Have you played Shirase? If so, you'll know that getting a high stack of 2 hole garbage is just completely horrible and game breaking. 3 is miserable. Randomizing hole amounts in this way could lead to some incredibly BS multiplayer situations. I'm sure you see what I mean.

[Kitaru]

I like Hold and 3 piece preview because I'm bad at Tetris.

...says the Shirase S11 who is on the verge of being a Death Master.

I can't remember exactly who proposed this argument, but I recall someone somewhere on the internet proposed that Tetris was never a puzzle but an abstract action game. I'll hunt for that argument later.

[SpawN]

I don't care if Tetris is a puzzle or not. Getting f***ed over by a truly random randomizer that doesn't have the same seed for both players is retarded; anyone who honestly thinks this is a way to make the game better should reconsider.

I like Hold and 3 piece preview because I'm bad at Tetris.

Having fully random piece/garbage sequences that aren't the same for both players is a horrible horrible idea. It's just inherently unfair.

Spawn, have you ever played TGM? Have you played Shirase? If so, you'll know that getting a high stack of 2 hole garbage is just completely horrible and game breaking. 3 is miserable. Randomizing hole amounts in this way could lead to some incredibly BS multiplayer situations. I'm sure you see what I mean.

Nope, I never played TGM.I said a couple of times already.  About the randomizer- who ever said that it won't be equal to both players?

About the garbage- for you 2 hole garbage is game breaking, because you are used to play that kind of tetris. 3 is miserable you say. Well for me its attractive. You have played one type of tetris and I have played another.

I have to tell you that soon with that hold piece, if you switch to play a game that is lacking that option you would really have no idea what to do, because you would have forgotten how to put that piece in the most favorable place.

Now, the thing with the hold piece is does it make one player better at tetris? No, it doesn't. Why, because a player having no hold option is not giving up on thinking where to put that piece instead of just hold it, but is required to place it somewhere on the stack that way developing skills that in a game with hold piece one can never develop.

The only function of the hold piece is that it makes tetris more attractive according to most of the people here.That is what I don't agree with. For me, attraction in tetris is something completely different.

However,  I acknowledge that for its future as a sport such feature is a necessity. After all, all sports sooner or later are becoming commercialized.

[Digital]

Now, the thing with the hold piece is does it make one player better at tetris? No, it doesn't. Why, because a player having no hold option is not giving up on thinking where to put that piece instead of just hold it, but is required to place it somewhere on the stack that way developing skills that in a game with hold piece one can never develop.

Playing with hold doesn't make one better, but neither does playing without it. We have to be careful here and not be one-sided. In games that do have the feature, a player that has little or no experience with hold would not be able to abuse it to its full potential (for optimizations rather than emergencies). Likewise, players used to hold may have trouble in games without hold like you said. This is just the consequence of having different gameplay mechanics.

[Kitaru]

I think you fail to realize that multi-hole garbage exacerbates one of your perceived problems. Two hole garbage is twice as important to send as one hole garbage. Two hole garbage is very uncomfortable, and more is debilitating. A multi-hole garbage game would emphasize speed over anything else. It widens the gap between players that can efficiently downstack and players that can send garbage quickly and offers no incentive to downstack efficiently. You won't be able to do it, so you might as well give up and spam as many big line clears as you can to send them to the top before you're there yourself. Debilitating garbage also emphasizes getting the first strike out. The slippery slope should happen at the top of the field, not at the beginning of the round.

[meow]

Nope, I never played TGM.I said a couple of times already.  About the randomizer- who ever said that it won't be equal to both players?

About the garbage- for you 2 hole garbage is game breaking, because you are used to play that kind of tetris. 3 is miserable you say. Well for me its attractive. You have played one type of tetris and I have played another.

I have to tell you that soon with that hold piece, if you switch to play a game that is lacking that option you would really have no idea what to do, because you would have forgotten how to put that piece in the most favorable place.

Now, the thing with the hold piece is does it make one player better at tetris? No, it doesn't. Why, because a player having no hold option is not giving up on thinking where to put that piece instead of just hold it, but is required to place it somewhere on the stack that way developing skills that in a game with hold piece one can never develop.

The only function of the hold piece is that it makes tetris more attractive according to most of the people here.That is what I don't agree with. For me, attraction in tetris is something completely different.

However,  I acknowledge that for its future as a sport such feature is a necessity. After all, all sports sooner or later are becoming commercialized.

actually hold can make one a better player, it depends how you use it. the way you think people use it obviously doesn't make one a better player though. you just haven't seen the power of hold imo, i beat many faster players using it.

and if there wasn't hold... well, speed is the only factor in winning. right now as it is with hold, slower players still have a chance.

another thing, don't think that players who use hold can't play well without. it doesn't take long at all to switch from playing with hold to no holds. i've done it several times in the past in tnet2 and still did quite well. however, i think that gameplay is very limited without it and it sucks because you can't be as efficient as possible, you have to make do with what you get.

[SpawN]

I think you fail to realize that multi-hole garbage exacerbates one of your perceived problems. Two hole garbage is twice as important to send as one hole garbage. Two hole garbage is very uncomfortable, and more is debilitating. A multi-hole garbage game would emphasize speed over anything else. It widens the gap between players that can efficiently downstack and players that can send garbage quickly and offers no incentive to downstack efficiently. You won't be able to do it, so you might as well give up and spam as many big line clears as you can to send them to the top before you're there yourself. Debilitating garbage also emphasizes getting the first strike out. The slippery slope should happen at the top of the field, not at the beginning of the round.

I don't agree with you at all. I think you fail to realize that a multi-hole tetris game, does not emphasize speed as you claim. In multi-hole garbage game it takes a lot more time to reason than playing faster, because if you try to play fast and downstack as fast as you can, you will only increase your stack, because you need to do a lot more moves to clear that multi-hole garbage row than you need in one hole garbage row. All that requires more planning and reasoning which on its part is decreasing speed significantly.

[oliv]

.

[SpawN]

1. I`m not trying to convince you to play one game or another. For me tetron is the best game, for you its blockbox and so on.However, I claim that tetron is harder than blockbox and probably most of the multiplayer tetris games. That is why I play it. You play blockbox for another reason.

2.It's not the fact that I'm attached to the original tetris concept. Its more like, I`m attached to the original tetris difficulty.

3. I claim that the newer tetris games are not favoring the creativity of the player.

I do agree that 3 pieces preview are giving you more information. However, I`m on the same opinion about the hold piece and for me its lame.I might be wrong, but thats my opinion.

4.The reason to create this topic was to see the opinion of the other people. I was not expecting such fierce opposition, but the thing is that for you Tetris is already a sport and for me its something more.

5.And yes this discussion does not seem to ever end.

[oliv]

.

[meow]

i claim you don't see the creativity because you are being closed minded about it

[SpawN]

I`m not closed minded. On the contrary, I already have an account in Blockbox. Its under the name winD. I`m not playing vs until I get used with the game, because some of the pieces are having different colors and the L and J pieces are especially confusing for me right now.

By the way, you can try Tetron too and convince yourself that the game requires much more thinking than Blockbox.

P.S. This topic was not about Blockbox vs Tetron or any other game. I don't know why Oliv started this. I never wanted to convince anyone that Tetron is the best game. The best game is the one that gives the most pleasure of the player, while playing it.

[Fantaisie]

I would like to agree with Kitaru that making the garbage more challenging to recover from will only serve to emphasize speed more. Players will always take the path of least resistance to victory; if it is quicker and easier to send garbage to one's opponent than it is to clear an equal amount of garbage from one's own stack, players will neglect the garbage in their own stack entirely, and build on top as fast as possible, going for an all-out attack.

[jujube]

I don't care if Tetris is a puzzle or not. Getting f***ed over by a truly random randomizer that doesn't have the same seed for both players is retarded

and explain why someone would want to keep reading your post after that point?