What was the first Tetris game that ... ?

[Okey_Dokey]

I guess you spoke about the Macintosh version from Spectrum Holobyte in the last sentence. I recorded some short footage because I didn't see any on Youtube. First, I try to show the step reset lock delay. Then I play Advanced Mode. And in the last part you can hear Korobeiniki which seems to play only during level 5.

The Macintosh version is definitely better than the PC version which suffers from dropped inputs (e.g. if you rotate and move simultaneously) and varying speeds depending on which computer you play (this video says to set cycles to 300 in DosBox in which case level 9 is easy survivable). The Macintosh version still has its flaws: only one rotation direction, score system not rewarding multi-line clears, rotation breaking the left/right autorepetition chain, the next piece being movable during line clear delay and lock delay not happening in some scenarios. But otherwise it's a decent version for its age.

[caffeine]

So lock delay came before dual rotation and multiline bonus? Who'd a thunk it

[zaphod77]

[quote name='Okey_Dokey' date='Aug 28 2016, 07:37 AM' post='88656']


What's been the first official Tetris game ...[list=1]

• where J, L, T, S and Z pieces spawned a bit more on the left side of the matrix?
  This is a tricky one. Earliest oen i know of  is spectrum holobyte tetris. pc version 1987.
  
• where all pieces spawned and rotated like nowadays (without kicks)?
  BPS invented this. and they appear to have done it first in tetris battle gaiden. HOWEVER....  The i piece rounds DOWN in that game, while it round UP in super Tetris 3, making that the first game. that game IS SRS without wallkicks.
  
• that was commercial (could be bought for some money)?
  This is a trick question. We need to define if arcade games count.  And alo what atually counts as official.
  
• that used move-reset lock delay (delay is reset after each move or rotation)?
  I'm 99% sure this is either The Next Tetris (which is the first with infinity that I know of), a silly mobile phone game (which obviously needs it), or Tetris Worlds, which is first SRS.
  
• that rewarded T-Spins in Versus multiplayer (sending additional lines)?
  Dunno...
  
  as for q 20, Tetris worlds is the first with 7-bag, but NOT the first with bag.   I actually found out from Henk what the first game with bag was.  Do you know?

[Okey_Dokey]

Reply to zaphod's post:

[spoiler]

where J, L, T, S and Z pieces spawned a bit more on the left side of the matrix?
This is a tricky one. Earliest oen i know of  is spectrum holobyte tetris. pc version 1987.

Spectrum Holobyte PC version should be the correct answer. There weren't that many Tetris games before it. The versions by Pajitnov and Gerasimov spawned the pieces more to the right side and so did the Mirrorsoft versions. Fun fact: Spectrum Holobyte went for more to the right side in the later games (Super Tetris, Tetris Classic).

where all pieces spawned and rotated like nowadays (without kicks)?
BPS invented this. and they appear to have done it first in tetris battle gaiden. HOWEVER....  The i piece rounds DOWN in that game, while it round UP in super Tetris 3, making that the first game. that game IS SRS without wallkicks.

Yes, BPS invented this. However, I can't evaluate Super Tetris 3 as the correct answer because S and Z pieces spawn "upside down" (whatever this means for S and Z). As a result those pieces rotate to the left side (and not right side) when using clockwise rotation. Always messes me up. The game I am looking for spawns the S and Z pieces flatside down but the I piece behaves like in Tetris Battle Gaiden. So the answer I am looking for is not formally correct, but you can use exactly the same rotations and left/right movements like in modern games.

that was commercial (could be bought for some money)?
This is a trick question. We need to define if arcade games count.  And also what atually counts as official.

Arcade games count but Tetris spawned from home computers so an Arcade game is not the correct answer. In this case I would use the following definition for official: The developers either acquired a Tetris license or thought they would have acquired a Tetris license.

• that used move-reset lock delay (delay is reset after each move or rotation)?
  I'm 99% sure this is either The Next Tetris (which is the first with infinity that I know of), a silly mobile phone game (which obviously needs it), or Tetris Worlds, which is first SRS.
  

I would say Tetris Worlds is the correct answer but I cannot say for sure. There are some (mobile) games before Tetris Worlds that I haven't played. The Next Tetris uses a mix of move-reset and step-reset: Move-reset for rotation, step-reset for left/right movement.

as for q 20, Tetris worlds is the first with 7-bag, but NOT the first with bag. I actually found out from Henk what the first game with bag was.  Do you know?

The New Tetris (1999) uses a 63-bag system. That means in the first 63 pieces you get 9 of each kind. Not sure if it's the first one. I didn't pay that much attention to randomizers while playing.
[/spoiler]

[zaphod77]

Hmmm.

I just retested, and yes, s and z are upside down in Super Tetris 3. meaning the first game that gets it right is later. I'm guessing you are thinking of Superlite Series 1500 The Tetris, but as you said the I is upside down. Therefore, Tetris Worlds is in fact the true and correct answer to that question.

The first tetris that was sold must be the Mirrorsoft tetris games, for various systems. I think apple ii was first, though it might have been PC.  Spectrum Holobyte and Mirrorsoft are actually the same company, with spectrum holobyte being the US department.

And yes, you are right abut the first ever tetris with bag, which is, in fact, the game bag was developed for. confirmed by Henk Rogers himself.

[Okey_Dokey]

Reply to zaphod's post:

[spoiler]

I'm guessing you are thinking of Superlite Series 1500 The Tetris, but as you said the I is upside down.

I was looking for a game released before Superlite Series 1500 Tetris. In Superlite the I piece rotates to the "wrong" columns (compared to the today's guideline), in the other game not (but it still rotates to the "wrong" rows). BTW the game I am looking for has a similar Marathon mode as in Superlite Series 1500 Tetris: The speed maxes out after 100 levels (1000 cleared lines) and after all 10 levels the speed decreases; also similar (or same?) background images.

The first tetris that was sold must be the Mirrorsoft tetris games, for various systems. I think apple ii was first, though it might have been PC.

Apple II and IBM PC were both developed by Spectrum Holobyte. I think the Apple II version was only available in a bundle with the Apple IIgs, and the latter was definitely from 1988. The IBM PC version was probably the first version released by Spectrum Holobyte and probably the only version available not in a bundle (in North America). For example here's a Spectrum Holobyte advertisement from the February 1988 issue of Compute!. In the bottom it says "Tetris available on IBM" - it doesn't mention other home computer systems at all.

The IBM PC version seems to have been released either in January 1988 or December 1987. However, there's been a Mirrorsoft game that was released around November 1987. That's the game I was looking for.

Spectrum Holobyte and Mirrorsoft are actually the same company, with spectrum holobyte being the US department.

Yes, both subcompanies coordinated who makes games for which platform. Then, some Spectrum Holobyte games were also released in Britain by Mirrorsoft and some Mirrorsoft games were also released in North America.

In fact, all versions made by Spectrum Holobyte resemble each other and all versions by Mirrorsoft resemble each other. Spectrum Holobyte's versions are left-handed (even the O piece spawns left of the center), Mirrorsoft's versions are right-handed (in some games even the I piece spawns right of the center). The Spectrum Holobyte versions are Russian themed: a map of the Soviet Union in the level select screen, different Russian backgrounds for each level. Height (starting game with "garbage") is only selectable in the Spectrum Holobyte versions.

In the Spectrum Holobye versions, rotation breaks the Delayed Autoshift chain. In the Mirrorsoft versions, a piece rotates and moves further as long as you keep pressing the rotation button. More precisely, the Mirrorsoft versions poll the inputs only every time a piece falls down a row. If you press a key for 2 input polls, then the piece is moved resp. rotated 2 times. That means on later levels Delayed Autoshift is too slippery, and on earlier levels inputs can be ignored.

BTW I can upload some scans regarding Tetris in old computer magazines if someone is interested.
[/spoiler]

[iljain]

not related to this topic, but I 'm concerned with the player triforce

I remember there was an African tetris player Blink complained about and I think it's triforce.

As I remembered, harddrop discussed that he plays tournaments that make him look great, but those tournament are actually with very weak people or so...or tournaments that host by very little place, and with big name that sounds like a world champion or so.  Am I right Blink?

Blink said 80% member of harddrop are better than him at tetris.

Okey_Dokey10:46huh? triforce is tetris VIP http://oi49.tinypic.com/34gn6eq.jpg I guess he won more real-life tetris tournaments than blink (most of them organized by his organization though)  i think that's the problem.

[Okey_Dokey]

Don't take too seriously what I said. I was shit-talking, exaggerating and maybe making false claims. Blink has won 3 real-life tourneys (if I am not mistaken), I only know of 2 and a half tourneys that TriForce won. Perhaps (or probably), there are more I don't know of.

TriForce is from the USA with Jamaican roots. He is the founder and leader of an eSports team called Empire Arcadia. This team is recognized by Guinness World Records as the team with the most tournament wins (it's over 2000) but still the internet makes fun of TriForce and his team (just google triforce johnson site:reddit.com). Empire Arcadia has a tendency to compete in locations (e.g. Jamaica) or in games (e.g. Tetris) with no real eSports scenes. Empire Arcadia collaborates with Twin Galaxies and Guiness WR, and TriForce is some kind of self-exposer (you often see him posing with the Nintendo Power Glove), so you stumble across TriForce in the news from time to time.

Regarding Tetris: TriForce has won the Nintendo Worlds Tetris DS tournament which was an official tournament held by Nintendo. Still, TriForce has neither the technique nor the speed to compete with most players on Hard Drop. The Tetris Community stumbled across TriForce 10 years ago when he held an Empire Arcadia vs Canada competition which also had a last minute Tetris tournament (that's what I call the half tourney win for TriForce above). 1 year ago he also won a tourney in Jamaica and you can see him posing with a huge 20,000 $ cheque, but indeed it's just Jamaican dollars which are just peanuts. TriForce also likes to take photos with Alexey Pajitnov and Henk Rogers - nothing wrong with that, he always showed respect to them. Most lately he did a Guinness WR 24-hour Tetris challenge and that's where the talk on the shoutbox originated from.

Regarding winning self-organized tourneys: Here in Germany Stiban and derder (who also have HardDrop accounts like TriForce whose is EmperorTFGM) organized some local tourneys in which they also competed in to a certain extent. There's nothing shady in participating in a self-organized Tetris tournament, it's just that the local competition is often so small and bad that it's a guaranteed victory for the organizer. And Empire Arcadia seems to use its wins to generate some attention.

[zaphod77]

Please send me the ACCURATE release list. what I read says apple II version was released in 86, and considering that the first tetris EVER was 85, there's no way one could be released in 78, and you must have meant 87, which apple II shows 86 on my release list. hat saem list i saw lists pc and c64 also for 86 (though that's probably the vadim version)

The history with the hungarian programmer versions is VERY muddled, and one of them is probably first, but i imply do not have the info to track down which got sold first.

That said i have evidence that the spectrum holobyte pc tetris was in 87, and probably before the one you are thinking of.

btw, i've since detrrmined that tetris X (bps, Japan) is probably the game you are after for your rotation/spawn question.

[Okey_Dokey]

reply to zaphod's post:

[spoiler]

Please send me the ACCURATE release list.

No reason to make a list.

there's no way one could be released in 78, and you must have meant 87

Yeah, transposed digits. I meant 1987, not 1978.

what I read says apple II version was released in 86 ... same list i saw lists pc and c64 also for 86 (though that's probably the vadim version)

Yes, the PC version is the Russian by Vadim Gerasimov. The BBC documentation From Russia with Love says it's from summer 1985, but probably not released (shared in various Moscow computer centers) before 1986. The Apple II and Commodore 64 versions you're speaking of are the Hungarian versions, not to be confused with the Spectrum Holobyte / Mirrorsoft titles.

The history with the hungarian programmer versions is VERY muddled, and one of them is probably first, but i imply do not have the info to track down which got sold first.

I don't think they were sold at all. The head of Academy Soft (the computer center where Pajitnov was working at) sent a copy of Gerasimov's PC version to the Hungarian programming company Novotrade which produced software for British and American publishers. Novotrade made versions for the Apple II and Commodore 64. Robert Stein discovered these versions and Novotrade told him about Academy Soft. So in the end, Robert Stein made only negotiations with the Russians, not the Hungarians. Probably, the Hungarian versions never left Novotrade, there's no image or closer information of them.

That said i have evidence that the spectrum holobyte pc tetris was in 87, and probably before the one you are thinking of.

Please share!

btw, i've since detrrmined that tetris X (bps, Japan) is probably the game you are after for your rotation/spawn question.

Yes, that's indeed the game I was talking about.
[/spoiler]

[zaphod77]

i have no quote for the month..

but the title screen has a 1987 copyright.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7IShUS105Q

most sources say 87, some say 88.  none actually seem to say the month. ;(

that said.. i JUST found evidence for 88, by looking at the file dates in an abandonware download.

everyone who said 87 was probably fooled by the copyright.  seems it wasprobably january of 88.

but I can't find accurate data on the mirrorsoft versions either...  I'm giving up.

The "hungarian programmers" are Andromeda Software, and those are the versions that were released in europe, licenssed to Mirrorsoft.

While most of them were almost certainly finished in 87, data on their release is rather hard to actualyl come by.  Mot of them have a 87 copyright on their title screen.

I have to conclude that you are looking for either amiga, amstrad, or spectrum version (which MSX was ported from). but i can't find real data.

[Okey_Dokey]

Reply to zaphod's post

[spoiler]
Thanks for having had a look into it.

that said.. i JUST found evidence for 88, by looking at the file dates in an abandonware download.

Sadly, there's been 2 different versions. The earlier version differs in some  background graphics. You'll usually find the newer version on abandonware sites (at least I haven't seen the older one). Checking for file dates is a good idea. I wonder why I haven't had that idea before. In the newer version, the background graphics are from December, only the executables are from January. So, maybe it was indeed released in December (only in North America, pretty sure it's January for Britain).

most sources say 87, some say 88.

Yeah, maybe they were fooled by the title screen. The Tetris Wiki also said 1987 for a long time and Wikipedia copied the release dates from it. Mobygames also says 1987 but it says 1988 for a game from which I know that it was definitely 1987. So who knows?

Indeed, the PC version is the only one by Spectrum Holobyte or Mirrorsoft where I wonder whether it was released in 1987 or 1988. Curse you IBM PC version! I used game magazine scans to see when the games where roughly released. Problem is: Tetris was no smash hit in the very beginning (maybe Mirrorsoft and Spectrum Holobyte didn't put the pedal to the metal because Elorg contacted Robert Stein in early 1988). Most magazines didn't review it when it came out. There are inserates with lists of games which you can order by phone. In North America Tetris was never listed in those inserates, so really hard to tell when it was released there.

The "hungarian programmers" are Andromeda Software, and those are the versions that were released in europe, licenssed to Mirrorsoft.

I don't think so. Andromeda Soft is Robert Stein's company (Robert Stein is that little dubious business man who secured (or thought to have secured) the rights to Tetris first, he was later tricked by Elorg - payback time). For example, David Whittaker made the music for the Commodore 64 - definitely not from Hungary.

While most of them were almost certainly finished in 87

Actually not. Mirrorsoft and Spectrum Holobyte just made a game for one platform first and ported to other home computer systems later on. Some versions weren't released before summer 1988.

I have to conclude that you are looking for either amiga, amstrad, or spectrum version

Nope.  
[/spoiler]

[zaphod77]

As near as I can make out, most of the european mirrorsoft versions were from andromeda (and have andromeda copyrights), who got them from the hungarian programmers.

Still can't find your source for that one release in 87, so i'm giving up.