NES Tetris Strategy Guide Book - Need Feedback

[ixbrian]

Update:  Book is now available on Amazon at:  http://www.amazon.com/Tricks-Classic-NES-T...s/dp/1500542199

Hello,
I've been working on creating a strategy guide book for NES Tetris called "Tricks of the Classic NES Tetris Masters" for the last several months.   My goal for the book is to have it cover all things related to NES Tetris in depth.    

I'm posting a preview copy of the guide and am hoping to get some feedback.  I'm looking for any feedback on things I might have gotten wrong, missed, could be improved, etc. to make the guide better before I have it printed.  

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!  

Thanks,
Brian

[Kitaru]

Just skimming for now, I'll try to give some comprehensive feedback later.

One thing I noticed was the piece percentages from the meatfighter document. For what it's worth, my numbers produced from comprehensively evaluating every valid randomizer position don't agree with his probabilities. One thing I'm not sure about in his math is that I think he may have not quite properly considered the effects of the re-roll on repetition. See http://tetrisconcept.net/forum/showthread....51159#post51159. Most notably, I-pieces seem to be more likely to appear than what was indicated in his rankings.

[Shuey]

Wow Brian!  This looks amazing!  Great job so far - looks very professional.

[ixbrian]

Just skimming for now, I'll try to give some comprehensive feedback later.

One thing I noticed was the piece percentages from the meatfighter document. For what it's worth, my numbers produced from comprehensively evaluating every valid randomizer position don't agree with his probabilities. One thing I'm not sure about in his math is that I think he may have not quite properly considered the effects of the re-roll on repetition. See http://tetrisconcept.net/forum/showthread....51159#post51159. Most notably, I-pieces seem to be more likely to appear than what was indicated in his rankings.

Thanks for the info Kitaru!

Wow Brian!  This looks amazing!  Great job so far - looks very professional.

Thank you.

[Kitaru]

No problem.  I'll let you know if I get around to investigating the discrepancy between the numbers. I'll also try to read more thoroughly later and give more feedback.

One other thing I did notice is that the blur on the I-piece DAS diagram seemed backwards -- i.e., I thought it was going right-to-left at first, not left-to-right. There might be a better way of visually presenting that information to eliminate that ambiguity.

[benmullen]

LOVE IT!!! It looks very well done I will offer what comments i can

Some comments with page numbers:

Page 11: I'm not certain where the cutoff is but I remember it was discovered that the game only gives so many pushdown points. It caps at something like 15 even though it would appear that 19 or 20 could be possible. On this as in all things Alex will know

Page 12: the difficult transitions are listed as 18 to 19 and 29 to 30. The second should read 28 to 29

13: I need a game genie. Also I think Josh has done some work on this and there might (or might not) be more. His input here would be helpful

14: Playing one piece ahead is necessary no doubt, but its sort of possible to play 2 pieces ahead as well in a way. I mean there are moments where even if a piece fits and leaves room for the next the only spot for the next leaves nothing for some number of pieces thereafter. So it is possible and good to make sure combinations are chosen that leave the most room for the most possible pieces even after the next. But this might be a fairly slight thing.

15: I think Alex already mentioned this but he had found the referenced piece distributions to be slightly off in some way.

16: This page is the only one is which there might be a need for some significant edit. Often even while resolving a stack with holes it can be advantages to tetris on a platform above the problem and then choose the right moment to downstack where it requires the fewest burnt lines. In the situation presented the S placement actually looks fairly solid as the alternatives are poor and it starts a nice looking center welled platform tetris. Also the second animation makes it seem as if a choice of which piece comes out can be made. Perhaps replacing both with a single situation where a different placement can be made with the same piece. Also, another consideration is that it is good to avoid not only building on top of the highest hole, but also the second highest hole as well if possible to and even the third (although almost certainly less than possible by that depth. I like to think of it like a hyperbolic curve of what you shouldn't do. Never cover the highest, try to avoid the second highest, and only if permissible avoid the third. all others are too deep for consideration.

17: I think that the importance of tetrising on the right is good not only because of the way pieces flip, but also because they actually emerge slightly to right of center as well.

21: I think full DAS would actually allow that I piece to reach the side in that pic. I think Josh posted a pic or 2 on Facebook a bit ago of the highest pieces can clear using just DAS and another technique (more later) that might serve really well here with his permission.

22: this is correct, but as it applies to DAS at 0 situations it could be labeled as such in the text perhaps, but I'm not sure on that, it is made clear on the next page.

27: This is interesting!! I never use this and i might give it a try  I'm uncertain of its superiority to skill stopping in the same situations. So this is more of a question; do other players use this in situations like this? Its a interesting thing and i have never really considered much use in finesse in NES, maybe it is. I will certainly play with the concept though.

29: The addition of a running total column will help



Possible additions:

1: "last second tap technique (alluded to earlier): there is a technique I think we just call "last second tap" where a players stops pushing to the right or left for a split second then does so again to essentially interrupt the final DAS movement and replace it with sort of the butt end of a hypertap to give things a little extra push to the edge right at the end. As with all things, Alex will describe it better than me. But for my 2 cents on it, its hard to be successful with consistently so even if used, it should only be when needed.

2) pole vaulting: It is possible to flip pieces over and around other pieces when the stack is too high so that they make it over where they otherwise would not. Alex too could give a better technical understanding of this.

3) Other general strategies to keep in mind that come to me:

Avoiding center spires: avoids needing to pole vault later, or top out

Balancing considerations: Often times two good pieces of advice are at odds with each other, very often actually. and several considerations come into play to decide between them. As I was reading about the avoidance of multiple wells i agreed entirely, but also remembered that I sometimes do exactly this albeit to avoid even worse things. Its not super common, but sometimes even that terrible thing is better than a more terrible thing. Here is a common example: Is it better to get a tetris, or normalize the stack if you have a good well to the right, but a second "bad well" up and to the left. Now normally it is better to normalize the stack, but under certain conditions, it becomes right to take the tetris, like if the stack is just too high and you MUST reduce its height to survive, or if normalizing the stack on the left still does not give good burn options further to the right. In this example, as in all truisms in tetris, there are situation in which doing something else because of an even more pressing concern becomes correct.

Anyway, I better stop, I type too much. This is a great work which I have very much enjoyed reading. I hope you don't take my many words to seem critical, in fact. You have done nearly everything right here  keep it up.

[Kitaru]

The drop point cap is 15, and it rolls back to 10 if exceeded. It's another math bug like the Level 10+ line scaling -- the score counter is stored in Binary Coded Decimal, and they add a normal value to it without conversion.

15 is hex 0F, so it is the last number that adds correctly before the format becomes and issue. 16 is hex 10... so, without conversion to BCD you just get decimal 10. That's why you see a lot of 12 or 13 in soft drop bonus when forcing the whole playfield height -- 18 decimal is hex 12, and 19 decimal is hex 13.

Also, I think playing "two" pieces ahead is fairly critical. Perhaps some of it just becomes second nature at some point, -- an inherent aspect of a successful stacking style -- but you definitely want to avoid railroading yourself into things based on what you can't yet see. You play with what is in hand first, but you leave yourself open to whatever the future might bring.

[Joshua_Tolles]

Brian, the guide is very impressive and looks great. No mistakes jumped out at me, except the gravity values being displayed by seconds rather than frames threw me off at first. But it really is a very fine job. Good work!

I have some responses to Ben, as follows:

13: I need a game genie. Also I think Josh has done some work on this and there might (or might not) be more. His input here would be helpful

Looks like he got most of the relevant ones. I would add:

GPVEPKZA: Hold "A"+Start to start game 20 levels higher

And also comment that I wrote an unlock-2-player code that reads ZAUAPPPA. Interesting to see that there is another way to achieve it.

21: I think full DAS would actually allow that I piece to reach the side in that pic. I think Josh posted a pic or 2 on Facebook a bit ago of the highest pieces can clear using just DAS and another technique (more later) that might serve really well here with his permission.

I believe here Brian is referring to playing without "manipulating" DAS. As in, tap and hold after spawn, this happens.

But here is one of the diagrams, Level 19 (I did 15, 18, and 19):
[!--ImageUrlBegin--][a href=\\\"https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10271547_10201697149985329_8176004900863614554_n.jpg\\\" target=\\\"_new\\\"][!--ImageUrlEBegin--][img width=\\\"400\\\" class=\\\"attach\\\" src=\\\"https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10271547_10201697149985329_8176004900863614554_n.jpg\\\" border=\\\'0\\\' alt=\\\"IPB Image\\\" /][!--ImageUrlEnd--][/a][!--ImageUrlEEnd--]

27: This is interesting!! I never use this and i might give it a try  I'm uncertain of its superiority to skill stopping in the same situations. So this is more of a question; do other players use this in situations like this? Its a interesting thing and i have never really considered much use in finesse in NES, maybe it is. I will certainly play with the concept though.

I personally have adopted the use of mini-wall-charges: charging off a single block whenever possible. Which, when executed properly, always ensures instantaneous shifts. But when no single-block (or larger) walls are available, the skill stop is the way to go for sure. Not that I do it or practice it.

I also use an "extended" tap to "charge" DAS. If you have to tap a piece into place, hold the button for a short moment longer after tapping it, but release it before 16 frames expire.

1: "last second tap technique (alluded to earlier): there is a technique I think we just call "last second tap" where a players stops pushing to the right or left for a split second then does so again to essentially interrupt the final DAS movement and replace it with sort of the butt end of a hypertap to give things a little extra push to the edge right at the end. As with all things, Alex will describe it better than me. But for my 2 cents on it, its hard to be successful with consistently so even if used, it should only be when needed.

I personally refer to it as the "extra-tap". I believe it is a fully utilizable tool if the player teaches himself which situations are possible to use extra-tap, and which ones aren't. It is quite a bit easier to use on slower levels, but harder to do on faster levels. Actually, wher eit really comes in handy, for me, is on Level 18. I tend to get too bold on 18, and extra-tap has become an often-used save method in desperate situations.

[XaeL]

Page 10 third example is too contrived. It would be far better to place the piece on the left or just left of the hole. use a better example for skimming.

[Kitaru]

27: This is interesting!! I never use this and i might give it a try  I'm uncertain of its superiority to skill stopping in the same situations. So this is more of a question; do other players use this in situations like this? Its a interesting thing and i have never really considered much use in finesse in NES, maybe it is. I will certainly play with the concept though.

Oh yeah, this too. Wall finesse is nice. It's not strictly necessary, but I do like it. It's more useful in games with fast DAS, higher gravity, or time attack focus, but I still think it is a nice input optimization. It adds a bit more safety, and (although I haven't ever actively thought about it using it this way in an actual game) it also allows you to top off your DAS by tapping into the wall or holding longer than your normal skillstop before rotating.

[ixbrian]

Thanks so much everyone for the feedback.  I will work on incorporating all the great suggestions/corrections.  I'll post an updated version after.   Thanks again!

@Kitaru - Yes, the "I" piece blur on page 22 should be reversed, and thanks for the details on the drop point cap.  

@Ben - Thanks so much for all the comments/suggestions.  You bring up a lot of great points.  I'm going to be adding in everything you suggested  

@Joshua - I'll definitely add in that Game Genie code, thanks.  The "extended" tap to charge DAS is pretty awesome.  I just tried it out and was able to get it to work.  

@XaeL - Good point, I'll try to come up with a better example.  

[benmullen]

Oh yeah, this too. Wall finesse is nice. It's not strictly necessary, but I do like it. It's more useful in games with fast DAS, higher gravity, or time attack focus, but I still think it is a nice input optimization. It adds a bit more safety, and (although I haven't ever actively thought about it using it this way in an actual game) it also allows you to top off your DAS by tapping into the wall or holding longer than your normal skillstop before rotating.

Indeed.  I think I will try this move only on the one move that seems easiest to start, the moments where you need to put an I next to the well on the right.  That seems like the most common use for this from where I sit and I am only good at learning/ retraining myself at one thing at a time anyway.  If I like it, I may add more moments where I use it too.

See there!  it just goes to show what a good document this is, I'm learning new things already

[acorneli]

I think Ben kinda mentioned this, but the most important addition to me would be some discussion of ideal stacking, sorta building off of the discussion of avoiding two wells, you actually want to avoid any stack shape that requires  just a j or just an L, or what Robin and I refer to as a "two-deep well".  Often when I see the top players making moves I don't quite get at first, I realize they were avoiding a "two-deep".

Ben and Alex?  Is this accurate?

[Kitaru]

Yeah, you generally want to avoid making two cell gaps unless L/J/I is in the preview. It's the same principle as avoiding three-or-more cell gaps other than your main tetris channel -- you're limiting your placement options and banking on the appearance of specific pieces. In some cases, it can snowball into the formation of an even deeper chasm if you're stubborn about waiting.

The Basic Stacking section of J.O's TGM Guide has some good material to this end, as does Ryan Heise's stacking guide

[ixbrian]

Thanks again for all the suggestions!  I've posted a new version with these corrections:

-Page 1: Added credits to Hard Drop forum and those who have helped out.
-Page 10: Added better example for screenshot #3
-Page 11: Added info about soft drop point limits
-Page 12: Fixed difficult transitions typo (28 to 29)
-Page 13: Added +20 Game Genie code
-Page 14: Added quote from Ben regarding playing 2 pieces ahead
-Page 16: Put new examples for downstacking, improved text, and added quote from Ben
-Page 17: Added text about most pieces starting slightly to the right
-Page 21: Added clarification that "I" piece wouldn't make it assuming there was no DAS charge
-Page 22: Fixed picture of "I" blurry trails being on wrong side, and added clarification about the 16 frame delay only being if your DAS charge starts at zero.  
-Page 29:  Added running total column to table

Here is my to do list for the suggestions I still need to add in.  Let me know if I missed anything.  And thanks again, all of your feedback is greatly appreciated.    

To Do:
-Page 15 - Figure out piece statistics or remove this section
-Add "Last Second/Extra Tap Technique"
-Add "Pole Vaulting"
-Add "Extended Tapping Technique"
-Add section on balancing conflicting options/techniques
-Add section about avoiding two cell gaps that only L/J can fit in
-Mention avoiding center spires