Puyo Puyo Tetris Data and Discussion

[Kiyobi]

So I watched a couple of online Puyo Tetris netplay match videos, and it seems T-Spins and Tetrises can Back2Back with each other.
You can find it at the round beginning at 1:11.

[Kiyobi]

i hope a double post doesn't get me in trouble, but i got things to share so i feel it warrants a bump

puyo tetris came in for me today and i've been at it nonstop for almost 14 hours and i'm dead tired but i want to scribble down some bullet points before i forget when i crash into bed. i'll flesh out these thoughts tomorrow

correction from an assumption in the demo: tetris does not interrupt garbage flow when fighting back

pvt requires a fundamentally different approach; field control emphasis.

puyo does tons of damage, can murder tetris quickly. tetris needs to attack fast. go for quick tetrises or t-spin setups, do not go for high combos until late game

t-spin doubles are substantial

inconsistent "ARE" due to netplay lag is sadness

if anyone wants to sift through almost 14 hours of puyo tetris stream: http://www.twitch.tv/kiyobi/b/502854512
most of the netplay comes near the end

[caffeine]

I'd love to see a top level Tetris guy tvp a top level Puyo guy. That'd be the best way to find out how bad the balance is.

Btw, what do you mean by ARE? Most newer games don't have spawn delay (ARE), but do have line clear delay. What exactly is inconsistent in netplay?

[Kiyobi]

I put quotes in there because it isn't actually ARE, but that's what it feels like when you get a small punch of lag in the netplay. Imagine playing Tetris with random amounts of ARE that changes throughout the game.

Also if you want to see some high level PvT, I'm going to be streaming a first-to-10 this Saturday at around 6 PM PST. There's a pre-order bonus at stake =w=

[kbr]

I'd love to see a top level Tetris guy tvp a top level Puyo guy. That'd be the best way to find out how bad the balance is.

Caffeine, I flew to Japan to play against Sega's top Puyo player...not saying that I'm the best Tetris player. We did have issues with the game balance initially. Playing against the puyo players did help alleviate the balance and provided what we thought was the best for both player types. When playing against a very top puyo player, my advice is to kill them early! Taking too long to send attacks isn't ideal and a strong enough puyo player can setup an attack to easily compete against a double digit combo

[caffeine]

It's always nice to see kbr pop up in random threads. Thanks for the intel.

[Kitaru]

Is there an All Clear bonus? Sounds like a good setup to toss out some early harass.

EDIT: Alternate question: assuming it is there, was Tetris All Clear changed to fit Puyo All Clear behavior (buff next attack) or is it still a flat instant attack?

[Kiyobi]

Caffeine, I flew to Japan to play against Sega's top Puyo player...not saying that I'm the best Tetris player. We did have issues with the game balance initially. Playing against the puyo players did help alleviate the balance and provided what we thought was the best for both player types. When playing against a very top puyo player, my advice is to kill them early! Taking too long to send attacks isn't ideal and a strong enough puyo player can setup an attack to easily compete against a double digit combo

After two days of netplay, I can give my take of Puyo vs Tetris.

Initially, Puyo will always have the upper hand in the matchup because of the damage potential it holds. Tetris needs to act fast with a quick Tetris or T-Spin Double/Triple to slow down and stabilize the matchup. In my opinion, the ideal game plan for Tetris is to harass Puyo into late game where they have a little more breathing room for a killing Combo or B2B.

Early game is everything in high level PvT. If Puyo is left unchecked for too long, Tetris will have to deal with Puyo's threatening damage, which is difficult to stop. An unchecked Puyo 6-chain is sufficient to kill Tetris, which is only enough time for a single Tetris or T-Spin setup for most players. A Tetris or TSD isn't enough to offset a 6 chain, so ideally you want your garbage to disrupt them before their chain goes off and causes lethal damage to you.

[kaibutsu]

Is there an All Clear bonus? Sounds like a good setup to toss out some early harass.

EDIT: Alternate question: assuming it is there, was Tetris All Clear changed to fit Puyo All Clear behavior (buff next attack) or is it still a flat instant attack?

There are Perfect Clear bonuses. In fact, I think PCs are the most devastating setup you can use against a Puyo player since it covers nearly half their screen. Two consecutive PCs is almost a sure instakill. PCs are even a viable option to use against a Tetris player because it sends 10 lines of messy garbage.

And no, PCs act the same way, as they do send instantly.

After two days of netplay, I can give my take of Puyo vs Tetris.

Initially, Puyo will always have the upper hand in the matchup because of the damage potential it holds. Tetris needs to act fast with a quick Tetris or T-Spin Double/Triple to slow down and stabilize the matchup. In my opinion, the ideal game plan for Tetris is to harass Puyo into late game where they have a little more breathing room for a killing Combo or B2B.

Early game is everything in high level PvT. If Puyo is left unchecked for too long, Tetris will have to deal with Puyo's threatening damage, which is difficult to stop. An unchecked Puyo 6-chain is sufficient to kill Tetris, which is only enough time for a single Tetris or T-Spin setup for most players. A Tetris or TSD isn't enough to offset a 6 chain, so ideally you want your garbage to disrupt them before their chain goes off and causes lethal damage to you.

I agree with the general sentiment that the best way to deal with a high level Puyo player is to harass early from what I've seen. Puyo players have to play a lot more conservatively against Tetris because they lack a top game and their garbage is much more disruptive than it is for Tetris.

I saw pieces of your stream. Is there an option for Puyo players to harddrop in netplay? I saw that was an option when I saw you play your friend in a local match. I think it would be a nice way to help balance things out if things got out of hand against a skilled Tetris player. Also, is there an option for Tetris to increase softdrop speed in netplay? I saw this as an option when I played the demo. And does character select matter or are they just relevant for stories/voices?

By the way, I plan on streaming this game on harddrop as soon as I receive my copy in the mail.

[Kiyobi]

Hard drop is an option you can enable for Puyo, yes, but as it is not an option in netplay, I would rather learn to bear without it if I was playing Puyo online.

That option you changed in the demo is probably the difficulty level, which is intended as a handicap. You can't change that in netplay.

Characters are just for cuteness in standard VS, but they have different drop sets in Chibi Puyo and Puyotet Mix. For example, one character may have more irregular shaped Puyo in their drop pattern than others. In the case of Mix, each character has a different designated shapeshifting piece. They also have biases for certain items in Party mode. If you have a physical copy of the PS3 version, check the back of the book.

[Integration]

There are Perfect Clear bonuses. In fact, I think PCs are the most devastating setup you can use against a Puyo player since it covers nearly half their screen. Two consecutive PCs is almost a sure instakill. PCs are even a viable option to use against a Tetris player because it sends 10 lines of messy garbage.

Oh 10 lines is just overpowered. I assume the 10 lines will also stack with the combo bonus (a Single-Single combo perfect clear results in 11 lines respectively 33 Puyo Trash). On the other hand I am pretty sure that it won't stack with the line-clear bonus (a Tetris-lineclear Perfect Clear still results in 10 lines).

[morningpee]

Oh 10 lines is just overpowered.

Even more overpowered:
[fumen]110@7eRxeIDjBcfBiVB3dBGZB3cBt7c17c97c9AdVlBAAA?tAdlgBAAARmBAAA[/fumen]
16 lines sent (B2B TSD + PC + 1 combo) = 61 puyo trash

[farter]

a friend of mine in chinese tetris group and i looked into the rotation of pentominoes in the party rule vs game..
[fumen]110@zbA3/eqbRpobRpib1ljbA3ib1lnbA3kblzlbA3lzhb?IwobKwibYijbA3hbaimbA3mbA3obssnbusgcA4G[/fumen]

wallkick sequence follows that of the shape before adding the extra cell. (but still unknown for O piece, cuz the following kick works according to him)
[fumen]110@lcusnbsszbA3gbB3lbB3hbA3kbC3gbA3obA3nbA3vb?H3hbH3gb0lH31lgbG31lgbG3pbA4GdcssmbVKgbssmbUKss?BdMRpb0lmbMRgb0lwbAAA[/fumen]

so..
[fumen]110@vbQpobssA3mbushbG3gbG3ibI3gbB3wblzlb8elzA3?gbF3gbI3hbI3gbI3gbB3qbA3rb0lmbaikbA3gbYiI3gbI3h?bF3pbAYivbwNobUKnbWKobssmbQptsobssybdDlbEYdDnbk?zoblzobkzob8e5bMRmbqUlb0lpbYiobZivbAAA0bRpnbA3R?plbC3YiH3hbG3hbG3vbssgbA3lbKwhbG3IwI3hbG3gbAAB3?6bA3kbIw/eAAgbG3gbC3gbE3gbI3gbI3gbB3pbAgb0bxNob?xNobYinbRpmbYiQp2bUKnb6GybIwssmbJwCc4GGYpb8eob8?eob8eobIwrbAAA[/fumen]

S*-spin Tetris has been verified, which rewards as Tetris because only T-spin was detected. however T*-spin has not been tested yet.. anyone gonna try?

[fumen]110@Gd2lkb6lib0lA32lA30lhb0lgb0lA30lgb0lA30lgb?8lgb0lQp4lQp0lhb0lQp2lQp0lib1lSp1lkb2lBcAYi[/fumen]

[agizzlefizzle123]

a friend of mine in chinese tetris group and i looked into the rotation of pentominoes in the party rule vs game..
[fumen]110@zbA3/eqbRpobRpib1ljbA3ib1lnbA3kblzlbA3lzhb?IwobKwibYijbA3hbaimbA3mbA3obssnbusgcA4G[/fumen]

wallkick sequence follows that of the shape before adding the extra cell. (but still unknown for O piece, cuz the following kick works according to him)
[fumen]110@lcusnbsszbA3gbB3lbB3hbA3kbC3gbA3obA3nbA3vb?H3hbH3gb0lH31lgbG31lgbG3pbA4GdcssmbVKgbssmbUKss?BdMRpb0lmbMRgb0lwbAAA[/fumen]

so..
[fumen]110@vbQpobssA3mbushbG3gbG3ibI3gbB3wblzlb8elzA3?gbF3gbI3hbI3gbI3gbB3qbA3rb0lmbaikbA3gbYiI3gbI3h?bF3pbAYivbwNobUKnbWKobssmbQptsobssybdDlbEYdDnbk?zoblzobkzob8e5bMRmbqUlb0lpbYiobZivbAAA0bRpnbA3R?plbC3YiH3hbG3hbG3vbssgbA3lbKwhbG3IwI3hbG3gbAAB3?6bA3kbIw/eAAgbG3gbC3gbE3gbI3gbI3gbB3pbAgb0bxNob?xNobYinbRpmbYiQp2bUKnb6GybIwssmbJwCc4GGYpb8eob8?eob8eobIwrbAAA[/fumen]

S*-spin Tetris has been verified, which rewards as Tetris because only T-spin was detected. however T*-spin has not been tested yet.. anyone gonna try?

[fumen]110@Gd2lkb6lib0lA32lA30lhb0lgb0lA30lgb0lA30lgb?8lgb0lQp4lQp0lhb0lQp2lQp0lib1lSp1lkb2lBcAYi[/fumen]

I like the drawing at the end.

[Kiyobi]

What I previously said about having to harass Puyo to stabilize the matchup? Not 100% true anymore.

I've been working on Combo stacking and it can go toe to toe with high level Puyo chains. Check this video out, it's inspiring!

You have to be 100% on point with your combo though. If you drop the combo, you might have just dropped the round too.