Is Hard Drop's Community "Elitist"? What can be done differently?

[ohitsstef]

I moved it here because the replies were getting really off topic. I agree with Myndzi, if you guys want to talk about his past mod issues (like get stuff off your chest) you can make another thread on BWH and discuss there.

Caffeine started up the thread in order to see what we could improve on HD for the community as a whole. Please stay on topic. And for the sake of TTO3, in order to keep the forum welcoming (and tense free), this thread will remain here.

[Integration]

That's a flat-out lie, then. I may or may not still have pages of Skype conversation of the argument that ensued, but I most emphatically refused to delete his account.

Misunderstanding: I wanted to say when perfectclear came back, he stated that he didn't want to get banned back then. And I know what happened when he got banned. I read through the whole shoutbox log. I see 50 % of the blame on perfectclear's site, but nevertheless you overreacted (you had the attitude to not punish insults against your person, but questioning your moderation was a no go).

I'm not flaming, I'm stating facts.

Misunderstanding: I didn't mean that somebody flamed. But I know that if the discussion is continued it will cause flaming.

It would be nice if the people who supported me in private and appreciated the changes I implemented and actions I took would post in public support so that some of you could see that this isn't as one sided as you think, but given the reaming I've gotten from a vocal few members, I can hardly blame them for wanting to keep out of it.

LOL, I am the only one here who is "vocal", because you displayed your actions as good and that of the community as bad ("I did what I could to try and push things in this direction, but the aggregate community support wasn't there, and so I inevitably could not succeed"). The main problem of your moderation style was that you didn't communicate with people. You said it's now this way and basta. I know that people want to live down the past. Newer members don't even know what happened back then. All threads are hidden.

[Paradox]

I moved it here because the replies were getting really off topic. I agree with Myndzi, if you guys want to talk about his past mod issues (like get stuff off your chest) you can make another thread on BWH and discuss there.

Caffeine started up the thread in order to see what we could improve on HD for the community as a whole. Please stay on topic. And for the sake of TTO3, in order to keep the forum welcoming (and tense free), this thread will remain here.

I agree that it was getting off-topic, could we possibly instead state that all the posts should be on topic before moving it? Most threads have off-topic posts anyway. This one had some productive discussion. It wasn't everyone that was posting off-topic and additionally there seems to be people still making posts productive to the discussion. If it remains in BWH then we will see less responses and even less than that relevant to the topic. If you state after it moves to BWH that it should remain on topic I think it has little effect considering there are few rules for this section. (see above example post lol)

[Katatoniopeth]

I have to Agree with Paradox on this one, a clean up should be done instead of it being thrown in here. Your logic makes sense Stef, but it would be better if this was put back in general so we can keep the ball rolling. And Myndzi there are a lot of people who know how much you have done for this site and (since this is going to be in bwh regardless, i am gonna go ahead and flip the coin around) I think it is a damn shame you didn't get to help with the redesign that is never going to happen now, I know you would have done an excellent job. So count me in as a Myndzi supporter!

[Aaron]

Stop arguing about the thread and start arguing what the thread is about.

[Katatoniopeth]

Stop arguing about the thread and start arguing what the thread is about.

You got anything insightful to add regarding the topic at hand? This now a bwh shimmyshammy, so since it is that way, I am treating it as such.

[Lucho]

I don't think its elitist. Maybe is a bit non noob-friendly in the sense that new people are overwhelmed by the large amount of info and confusing terms about tetris, but I sincerely believe this happens in almost every online game in which a new person gets involved.

What can be done differently ? Well I've seen some pretty good sticky threads oriented to new people and all, the only thing I can add is about Introductions threads: it should be strictly moderated so no one annoy people introducing themselves and they dont get scared away. We should try providing links to useful information to every new person. Once they are familiar with the game and the community, we can troll them all we want (?)

[Katatoniopeth]

I don't think its elitist. Maybe is a bit non noob-friendly in the sense that new people are overwhelmed by the large amount of info and confusing terms about tetris, but I sincerely believe this happens in almost every online game in which a new person gets involved.

What can be done differently ? Well I've seen some pretty good sticky threads oriented to new people and all, the only thing I can add is about Introductions threads: it should be strictly moderated so no one annoy people introducing themselves and they dont get scared away. We should try providing links to useful information to every new person. Once they are familiar with the game and the community, we can troll them all we want (?)

Newer players don't get taken seriously, and when people post videos of their accomplishments they get shit on, links and all that is all good but for the really new players it isn't helpful, if they can barely setup a tetris they won't find the guides useful at all.

[myndzi]

It makes more sense to look at what we can do as the community members because ultimately its the community that can perpetuate this negative elitist behavior. At the same time if we make additional ways to support newer players it can spread a different mentality.

+1

I think people are taking the opportunity because I haven't really talked about it. You guys are welcome to make a separate thread. Or someone could split this one in two.

LOL, I am the only one here who is "vocal"

I was referring to at the time, not in the present here.

I think it is a damn shame you didn't get to help with the redesign that is never going to happen now

I think you may have misunderstood the situation; I never intended to be involved in the redesign. I was just a bit miffed that it came out of the blue in a period where I was actively improving the site, thus invalidating that work.

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Re: new members, in my opinion the best thing that can be done is a *personal* welcome and possible orientation. This might work best as a team effort, where a large pool of members can help keep it going. Just that little bit of personal acknowledgement will go a long way to feeling inclusive, and it's uncommon enough that people will really appreciate it. I'm not certain how such a thing would be organized. Perhaps a thread like I've seen in some forums where people can volunteer to take on forum 'mentors' -- or possibly Tetris-in-general mentors -- for a short time. That can be a really rewarding experience for both people.

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Take this thread, delete the meta posts (posts about the thread), and split the mod posts, then put this thread back in general or wherever it was.

[ohitsstef]

I'll move it back once I see more replies that are relevant to the thread topic. Anyone who wants to reason that just because it's in BWH means replies can stray off topic, your actions are not helping the community.

The initial reason why I moved it here was because the atmosphere was becoming extremely tense and making HD look bad. TTO3 is going on so we want the community to look welcoming and friendly.

[Katatoniopeth]

I am not sure what else could be said regarding this topic. Caffeine posted a great Help section For newer players, though I would be very interested in hearing others thoughts (if more could be done to welcome players, putting a more strict system in place for trolling etc etc.)

[Paradox]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--] Anyone who wants to reason that just because it's in BWH means replies can stray off topic, your actions are not helping the community. [/quote]
If BWH isn't a place for that I think
[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]No rules. Enter at your own risk.[/quote]
should probably be removed. As it stands BWH is a place for off-topic discussion, and I thought that was the whole purpose of it in the first place. I understand that moderation has changed since BWH was created but if the rules have changed it seems like that needs to be clearly stated somewhere. This thread has been killed anyway. The moment it was moved to BWH the real discussion ceased because it is no longer visible nor is it on topic (due to there being no rules here).

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]The initial reason why I moved it here was because the atmosphere was becoming extremely tense and making HD look bad. TTO3 is going on so we want the community to look welcoming and friendly[/quote]

I don't consider a thread about improving hard drop to be a tense topic. There were some tense posts but I don't see how that justifies throwing out the entire thread to be honest. Its like moving an entire folder to the trash bin when only one file was corrupted.

I guess it goes to show we have more problems than just elitism.

[Aaron]

As it stands BWH is a place for off-topic discussion, and I thought that was the whole purpose of it in the first place

General is for off-topic discussion. BWH is for threads that are hazardous to attracting and keeping new members.

I don't consider a thread about improving hard drop to be a tense topic. There were some tense posts but I don't see how that justifies throwing out the entire thread to be honest. Its like moving an entire folder to the trash bin when only one file was corrupted.

This thread was posted at the exact wrong time. Two weeks earlier and it's fine. A few weeks later and it's fine. We're showing ourselves as a good, flawless community during the heavy traffic periods of TTO. Whether it's a façade or not, Hard Drop is showcasing itself to potential new members and sponsors. Just go with it and be happy that the whole thread wasn't completely eradicated.

[qwerty098765]

General is for off-topic discussion. BWH is for threads that are hazardous to attracting and keeping new members.This thread was posted at the exact wrong time. Two weeks earlier and it's fine. A few weeks later and it's fine. We're showing ourselves as a good, flawless community during the heavy traffic periods of TTO. Whether it's a façade or not, Hard Drop is showcasing itself to potential new members and sponsors. Just go with it and be happy that the whole thread wasn't completely eradicated.

No community or organisation or whatnot is perfect.
How is a thread addressed at on-going improvements and re-evaluation bad?
It actually gives a positive impression by addressing the negatives.

Not addressing negatives is something to worry about~
Have you guys ever thought the super nice guys with no flaws
are people to be wary of?

[Shizi]

No community or organisation or whatnot is perfect.
How is a thread addressed at on-going improvements and re-evaluation bad?
It actually gives a positive impression by addressing the negatives.

Not addressing negatives is something to worry about~
Have you guys ever thought the super nice guys with no flaws
we're people to be wary of?

I thought this was a poem