Is Hard Drop's Community "Elitist"? What can be done differently?

ohitsstef · October 05, 2013, 07:16:57 PM

Quote from: qwerty098765
The very first problem is that, yes... we DO have threads that answer basic question people have but these
are difficult to find. In addition if a person is not aware of what to search for then they will not find it no matter
how easy it is to find.

This is why I suggested, in the first pm a new user receives the content will help them utilize the site.

Quote from: qwerty098765
When it comes to finding answers and being able to comprehend those answers a person will need
to have questions in their head that they can address. It is the reason why university readings are far more
effective and far easier to understand after a lecture has set the context for those readings. Guides need
context and players need some experience before guides.

And like Kat said~ some players just learn far better from hands-on experience.
"The blame can't be put on either party.. sometimes things just honestly don't work out."
I don't mean to be aggressive here but doesn't such a statement scream of an,

"It can't be done! Let's not bother~!" attitude?

There are so many members on HD that utilize skype, fb, gmail, twitter etc etc, if a user wants to learn something there are so many of us to ask to help. I haven't seen someone turn a new member down when they wanted help. Even kata was able to get help from numerous members.

as for your statement scream thing - that's not what I meant.

Quote from: qwerty098765
Then do you have any ideas on how we should try instead? O___________O;;;

read the entirety of my first reply

myndzi · October 05, 2013, 07:34:44 PM

Quote from: ohitsstef
I'm going to point out that even though we have pinned threads that can help newer members learn gameplay and such (i.e. paul's thread that links useful threads for improvement and such), newer members ask the same questions repeatedly. Even though we have numerous threads exist to help them already.

...this is exactly the sort of thing that makes the forums less accessible. Sure, *we've* seen the same questions a million times, but you have to remember that it's new to most people asking them. In addition, they don't always know what they're asking for; those of us who've 'been there done that' can point them in the right direction.

Sending out a message when they sign up essentially digging on their inexperience right out the gate is a terrible idea.

qwerty098765 · October 05, 2013, 07:46:06 PM

Oh Myndzi...

ohitsstef · October 05, 2013, 08:10:01 PM

Quote from: myndzi
I'm fairly sure she means that she doesn't like some members and will make an ass of herself until Blink bans them. Since Blink is unwilling to punish stephanie when she acts out of line, she is basically the lowest common denominator in this equation. And since she won't behave herself around people she doesn't like, that makes Hard Drop basically the 'people steph likes or flame threads' forum. So, people who 'don't fit' are people who don't fit her idea of how they should be.

Yeah Myndzi this is exactly what I meant.

There's nothing wrong with me pointing out that some people won't be able to fit into this community.

Quote from: myndzi
Sending out a message when they sign up essentially digging on their inexperience right out the gate is a terrible idea.

The first PM they receive will just show them how to use the forum and give them a link of good threads to check out. I don't think that'll be digging into their inexperience.. it's just like a, "welcome, here are some things you should check out."

Katatoniopeth · October 05, 2013, 08:11:12 PM

Quote from: ohitsstef
Yeah Myndzi this is exactly what I meant.

There's nothing wrong with me pointing out that some people won't be able to fit into this community.

Anyone can fit into the community, what I don't like is how ambiguous your statement is, you have failed to elaborate on why.

Edit: your whole "not everyone can fit into a clique" bullshit drives me up a wall. This is supposed to be a community for all tetris gamers, regardless of skill, seniority, speed etc. You are basically reinforcing the idea that this is a community devised of only the "best of the best" and driving away those who just enjoy the game and want to interact with others who do as well.

ohitsstef · October 05, 2013, 08:22:04 PM

Quote from: Katatoniopeth
Anyone can fit into the community, what I don't like is how ambiguous your statement is, you have failed to elaborate on why.

Edit: your whole "not everyone can fit into a clique" bullshit drives me up a wall. This is supposed to be a community for all tetris gamers, regardless of skill, seniority, speed etc. You are basically reinforcing the idea that this is a community devised of only the "best of the best" and driving away those who just enjoy the game and want to interact with others who do as well.

lol. I am not reinforcing that. I'm acknowledging the fact that we are a community made up of top Tetris players. When I say top, I don't mean we're top notch and can defeat anyone and everyone. But we do make up the top players in the Tetris "world." We are serious and passionate about the game. That's what differentiates us from others. That's all I am saying.

When I say not everyone can fit into a clique, I'm looking at TetrisConcept and Harddrop communities. Does this make sense? There are different cliques. Different people fit in these communities.

You, Rissa and Myndzi can beat this statement with a bat all you want, but I didn't say offensively. It's just stating the obvious. It's honestly getting old, how about some ideas on what can be done differently?

qwerty098765 · October 05, 2013, 08:24:59 PM

She's not reading >>"
Rather than shutting ideas down how about expanding on them?

Ideas so far:
1. Establish independent help sections;
2. Live stream conference and Q+A style;
3. Milestones, challenges and stepping stone rewards;
(In addition to how these milestones can improve player skill.)
4. PMs to be imme-discarded.

Aaron · October 05, 2013, 08:30:56 PM

Hard Drop isn't elitist as long as you're sub-40, speak perfect English, hate official games, and use full DAS and finesse.

qwerty098765 · October 05, 2013, 08:32:24 PM

Quote from: Aaron
Hard Drop isn't elitist as long as you're sub-40, speak perfect English, hate official games, and use full DAS and finesse.

You forget 'knowledge of all-spins'.

Katatoniopeth · October 05, 2013, 08:33:43 PM

Quote from: ohitsstef
lol. I am not reinforcing that. I'm acknowledging the fact that we are a community made up of top Tetris players. When I say top, I don't mean we're top notch and can defeat anyone and everyone. But we do make up the top players in the Tetris "world." We are serious and passionate about the game. That's what differentiates us from others. That's all I am saying.

When I say not everyone can fit into a clique, I'm looking at TetrisConcept and Harddrop communities. Does this make sense? There are different cliques. Different people fit in these communities.

You, Rissa and Myndzi can beat this statement with a bat all you want, but I didn't say offensively. It's just stating the obvious. It's honestly getting old, how about some ideas on what can be done differently?

The first thing that can be done differently, is not comparing the Harddrop Community with Highschool cliques

In all honesty, looking at people as people in this community, not putting restrictions based on what I previously stated.

rainbowx1994 · October 05, 2013, 08:56:29 PM

The site isn't just for the best, but for everyone. There are many tetris games and any tetris lover from any tetris game could easily fit in with the community. I feel communities for certain things are fantastic because not only are you improving your skills, but your also fitting in and will help you make friends faster! And if your having problems on a tetris game or other game communities, there are happy and helpful people that are there to help you and have fun.

qwerty098765 · October 05, 2013, 09:45:56 PM

I can't help but say this... because the error was repeated twice I cannot over look it.. IM SORRY PEOPS! ><"

Your, You're. T_T

Integration · October 05, 2013, 11:45:38 PM

About the original question: I think HardDrop is a bit elitist, but you can't change the people. That Xeal isn't trolling anymore in the introduction threads is a beginning though.

But what you can change is that HD is more helpful to users new to it. I would like to see an info box on the front page with some links to Tetris games and tutorials.

I think the main problem is that all multiplayer Tetris games are elitist. Yeah, you can target players in a free for all Tetris Friends room, but when it comes to a 1vs1, players lose 15-0 to someone who loses 15-0 to another one. Multiple previews increase speed gap, hold and bag randomizer makes the game deterministic (you are never screwed by bad piece sequences) and allow setups like T-spin openings or ZT stacking (Marathon resp. solid garbage), garbage blocking forces you to multi-task (look at the opponent's screen to cancel incoming messy garbage with a T spin or Tetris, at the same time pay attention to previews and hold and monitor ghost piece so that you don't misdrop on a laggy client). Moreover, T spin setups can only be learned by watching others play or looking into Tetris Wikis.

So is a forum related to Tetris elitist? Yes. Why should you want to talk to another Tetris player, you can't have fun playing against? It will ever be that way, unless Tetris games become less elitist (that's why I am opponent of multiple previews, hold, bag randomizer, garbage countering and time-based combo systems in multiplayer games).

Blink · October 06, 2013, 12:56:18 AM

I don't feel like HD as a whole is elitist, maybe a few members but that's expected when you have a bunch of competitive people on a forum. Besides, we have no reason to feel elitist, Japanese Tetris players probably make up 9 of the 10 best multiplayers.

Blitz · October 06, 2013, 12:58:33 AM

I think the way the forums is organized is not user friendly. Good threads that answer questions disappears among the other threads and hardcore Tetris discussion threads ends up in between threads with questions from new players.
I think the forums should be re organised to something like this
[!--ImageUrlBegin--][!--ImageUrlEBegin--][img width=\\\"400\\\" class=\\\"attach\\\" src=\\\"http://i.imgur.com/hYJPccM.png\\\" border=\\\'0\\\' alt=\\\"IPB Image\\\" /][!--ImageUrlEnd--][/a][!--ImageUrlEEnd--]

[a href=\\\"http://i.imgur.com/hYJPccM.png]http://i.imgur.com/hYJPccM.png[/size]

That would put all the elitism in one place while everything else could be new player friendly.