Wikimerge, Wikia's shutdown, getting people interested in contributing to tetris knowledge

[caffeine]

Fine, then we don't make a site ring. Gee, lighten up a bit, sour puss! Are you or are you not giving Blink permission to authorise myndzi going off and making a merged wiki?

Okay, I have a proposal.

• TC.net changes their domain name to something that does not include the word "concept." (If you're low on funds, I'll pay 3 years rent on the new domain name for you.)
• I won't even be mad if you keep the forum as is, despite it being a copy of my old site.
• You can redirect from tc.net and tc.org for some length of time that you choose. After the time is up, tc.net and tc.org no longer point to any content anywhere.
• After that, and only after that period, a third party hosts a unified wiki.
• Both sites close their own wikis at that time.

With that, you have my support 100%. Both communities remain in tact, unified wiki, everyone's happy.

[muf]

Is 50% or less of your support good enough too? What's the threshold here?

[StS]

Lol, man I'm slow to finally figure out the real angle here. This isn't about making the content easier to access or the good of Tetriskind. This boils down to channeling more traffic towards TC.net. It's exactly the same reason you guys decided to rip off my site's name: visibility.

To be very honest, in this case, there is absolutely nothing wrong with proposing a win-win solution, even if that were their intention. In fact, HD would benefit from that same visibility, but if the Tetris community itself benefits EVEN MORE from this solution, then what's there to not like?

[caffeine]

What's the threshold here?

100%

In fact, HD would benefit from that same visibility, but if the Tetris community itself benefits EVEN MORE from this solution, then what's there to not like?

Actually, axing HD's wiki could potentially hurt HD's visibility depending on how much traffic is going where. imo, the benefits of a third party wiki to tetriskind is being embellished, and such a move might not be worth the risk to HD.

[muf]

Is 50% or less of your support good enough too? What's the threshold here?

100%

Then we're done. The only reason I can imagine for TC changing its name is to stroke your ego. I thought we put that behind us. Apparently you didn't. Fin.

[myndzi]

100%
Actually, axing HD's wiki could potentially hurt HD's visibility depending on how much traffic is going where. imo, the benefits of a third party wiki to tetriskind is being embellished, and such a move might not be worth the risk to HD.

As far as I could tell when I had analytics access, the wiki ranks for shit and is not a source of inbound traffic.

[caffeine]

Then we're done. The only reason I can imagine for TC changing its name is to stroke your ego. I thought we put that behind us. Apparently you didn't. Fin.

Ah yes, how selfish of me. How dare I expect you guys to show some originality. My bad. Stick to your copy and pasting of other people's websites.

[muf]

How dare I expect you guys to show some originality. My bad. Stick to your copy and pasting of other people's websites.

[myndzi]

I now fully support closing this thread forever and moving it to the trash.

[clincher]

Ah yes, how selfish of me. How dare I expect you guys to show some originality. My bad. Stick to your copy and pasting of other people's websites.

If this is the kind of comments that are coming in this thread, I think it would be best to lock it. Discussion is over, apparently.

[Rosti_LFC]

Yeah I've not posted here in a while. I don't post on TC much these days either. I'm basically around for LAN parties and booze and IRC chatter and dicks and occasionally these things prick my attention. And it's nearly 2am and I've had a long week so sorry this came out a bit more disjointed and rambly and long than I'd want. There's at least a tl;dr.

TC.net changes their domain name to something that does not include the word "concept." (If you're low on funds, I'll pay 3 years rent on the new domain name for you.)

Maybe I'm overestimating you, but I feel you're playing a suave card here. Sound like you're conceding with sensible demands, but then make demands that you know we'll never accept so it looks like actually we're the ones that kill the idea. Then suddenly TC are the bad guys who never really cared about the greater community.

The name and the history and the community that attaches itself to it is the reason people ripped the site and the domain to begin with. We didn't want to budge on it then, why would we now. We've had plenty of years under the Tetrisconcept name. We've had parties. We have a flag (seriously, we do) .

You can bitch that apparently we just want traffic and we don't give a shit about the community - that's partially true, but it's not completely. In a sense it's probably more accurate that there are people who would probably concede a fair bit if it meant the wikis merge, because that's what they're passionate about. On the other hand there are people who aren't prepared to completely concede everything TC has and make moves if it's only likely to be negative for TC and the future of it.

People at TC don't really care what happens on the HD side so long as the wikis merge and TC doesn't lose a large chunk potential because of it. I also really doubt people on the HD side give much of a shit about what happens to TC - the exception being you. Why would HD people care about TC doing well if it didn't directly cannibalise traffic from HD (which we're not attempting to do here).

When people like c_t and Kitaru and muf are posting here, really they're posting on behalf of a group of people, and the arguments they make and the negotiating they're doing is to represent what a community thinks. On the other hand, you're just pulling these demands and negotiations to soothe your own ego.

TC isn't asking for anything I can see would be a negative to HD (we offer you to host the wiki, offer free hosting, and all we ask is that the sites link to each other more?). Yet you're insisting that TC basically has to concede a bunch of things that have nothing to do with the wiki or subsequent situation at all, which are almost all negative to TC to some degree. Why does TC have to make a crapton of irrelevant sacrifices just to apparently please you and show we don't have malevolent intentions at heart? You really expect the community to be so selfless and that people within it won't object to it (even if others are happy with it)? We're too much of a mixed voice to ever agree to something like that.

If you're representing HD to try and make sure that TC isn't being greedy and stealing users/traffic from HD in all of this, then I don't get why you should give a shit at all what the website is called - I seriously doubt anyone at HD cares, and most people weren't even in the Tetris scene when all this shit originally went down to begin with.

Certain TC people may be pushing in interests of TC, but at least TC is a fair chunk of the wider Tetris community. On the other hand you seem to just be pushing in the interests of caffeine. TC's opinions come from a group of people, yet apparently you alone get to defend the entirety of HD from our evil empire. You have some bizarre filibuster power that nobody else in this discussion has, for no actual logical reason any more other than Blink has no spine to make any decision and apparently he owes you enough to revolve his entire moral compass and what he thinks is correct around what you think.


BIG SHINY tl;dr...

Please explain how removing "concept" from Tetrisconcept is good for the harmony of the future Tetris community. Please explain why it's a necessary and logical step in making the wiki merge happen. Please explain how TC changing it's name would make any lasting difference at all if you keeled over dead tomorrow (or you know, just left, that would work too), as the sole person here who actually still cares about it from that side.

TC changing its name would purely just be an exercise in licking your ass to make you happy and drive TC into the ground a little bit. TC changing its name has no effect on HD, or the wiki's future. It's a positive for you, and a negative for a lot of people at TC, and shouldn't be directly relevant at all to whether the wikis merge. It's absolutely ridiculous that you make a scathing claim TC is just being selfish here and there's no genuine interest in the wider community at all, when you make a demand that is so absolutely blatantly only in your own ego's interest and has nothing to do with what's good for the wider community at all. We won't agree to it and you know that, and I'm kind of shocked that you can so blatantly just hold people's opinions on the wiki hostage to try and fuck over TC a little bit, when the issues are totally separate. You aiming for a career in US politics or something?

tl;dr's tl;dr

It makes me so disappointed that the future of the community can apparently be dictated by someone who seems to give the least fucks about what's best for it when compared to his own personal agenda. Maybe there are some people within the TC side who feel there's potential for TC to gain from this, but they're at least being far more sensible and compromising about it than you are.

[caffeine]

Yet you're insisting that TC basically has to concede a bunch of things that have nothing to do with the wiki or subsequent situation at all, which are almost all negative to TC to some degree. Why does TC have to make a crapton of irrelevant sacrifices just to apparently please you and show we don't have malevolent intentions at heart?

Just to make something clear, I have absolutely nothing against the tc.net community. I've enjoyed many great threads with most of them in the past, and I consider them good people. I want nothing less than to be friends. However one thing keeps being forgotten, TC.net is a result of some guys copy and pasting my website onto a similar domain and calling it their own! I think it's pretty fucked up. I wish you could just accept that I'm not going to be okay with that. I get it--nobody cares anymore. It's nothing everyone hasn't heard already. It's like beating a dead horse. Yet, you guys still act like I shouldn't view the situation this way. Well, I do.

Anyway, to answer your question, TC.net doesn't have to do anything to please me. HD is blink's, not mine. I mentioned this before. muf asked if I supported a unified wiki, and those were the conditions of which I'd honestly feel comfortable with such a situation. Go figure--I'd like TC.net to use a name that didn't blatantly copy my site's. I don't think that's selfish.

[Rosti_LFC]

TC.net is a result of some guys copy and pasting my website onto a similar domain and calling it their own!

Calling it their own in terms of *our content*, sure - but it always was. Everyone's post has their name next to it, wiki edits are attributed to the person that made them. It's not like we would deny that you made the original site. You made a thing, you orphaned a thing, other people took up the mantle to continue the thing against your wishes. I don't think anyone at TC would ever claim history went differently. We don't deny you did the things you did when you were there, and we're not attributing shitty things that happened being your fault if they happened after you left. If TC ever somehow became huge (lol), it's not like we'd just pretend the caffeine era never existed. And muf and DeHackEd and c_t and co certainly wouldn't claim the site was their idea.

those were the conditions of which I'd honestly feel comfortable with such a situation.

Really though? Are they not just conditions that you want irrelevant of the wiki situation? :s

And really, given that they're flat out not going to happen, is it that much to ask to just give consent for something to move forward even if you're not 100% comfortable with it. TC collectively is hardly suggesting the best possible deal we could be asking for either - but that's the whole idea behind compromising to find a solution.

[caffeine]

Calling it their own in terms of *our content*, sure - but it always was. Everyone's post has their name next to it, wiki edits are attributed to the person that made them. It's not like we would deny that you made the original site. You made a thing, you orphaned a thing, other people took up the mantle to continue the thing against your wishes. I don't think anyone at TC would ever claim history went differently. We don't deny you did the things you did when you were there, and we're not attributing shitty things that happened to you after you left. If TC ever somehow became huge (lol), it's not like we'd just pretend the caffeine era never existed. And muf and DeHackEd and c_t and co certainly wouldn't claim the site was their idea.

I understand this is how you guys feel about it, and you're right that much of the original content did belong to the people who are active on tc.net now. However, I do not accept that all this gives you a pass to copy and paste someone else's website without their go ahead. Honestly, right now I couldn't care less about what people know of my own involvement. What I care about is how tc.netters had a wonderful opportunity to create their own original Tetris site, and I would've been their number one promoter and source of traffic. I would've loved to see my friends realize what it feels like to create something of their own and care about it and see it succeed. Yet, instead I was betrayed, and against my wishes they took advantage of the opportunity to copy my entire website as if they had run it all along. In fact, the plan as it was explained to me originally, was to wait until tc.com ran up, take it, and then act like nothing happened. To me, that's very wrong.

[muf]

However one thing keeps being forgotten, TC.net is a result of some guys copy and pasting my website onto a similar domain and calling it their own!

The problem with that argument is that nobody is claiming ownership of TC. In fact, TC does everything it can to hide who's running the site, because it doesn't matter who's running it. The community is what matters, and ownership seems like such a petty thing to argue about. TC would still be yours if you hadn't abandoned it and left us to our own devices to reanimate it. But this has been stated by Rosti and others over and over again in the earlier pages of this thread, so I would rather refer you first to my beating-a-dead-horse gif, and second to colour_thief's post, where he suggested to put all this ridiculous baggage behind us and just move the community forward. Because the community is what matters. A recognisable name and working links (if we implemented your suggestion of redirects that expire after a set period, we would end up with a bunch of dead links scattered across the internet) are part of that community. So changing the name of TC is definitely, completely, and utterly, out of the question. Also, those flags were expensive (but boy was it worth it -- look at the majesty).