constructive criticism of The Tetris Company

[Integration]

Oops title should be: Why we dislike TTC

I want to voice my opinion about what I dislike most on TTC, namely the lack of support of classic Tetris. You may have other reasons (lags, multiplayer support, treatment of TGM and fan games). Mention them if you want.

They're some people here who stuck to their old version (1989) of Tetris with all their flaws and poor graphics. Why? Because there are no newer games with similar gameplay! TTC is the only source for licensed games because of IP law. And they decided to go a different way. A way that damages Marathon (hold, bag randomizer, too long lock delay, infinite rotation, endless gameplay). Is it too difficult to include a classic styled version in one of the official games? I say no.

Now, let's come to the constructive part. I want to describe, what type of game I'd like to have. The term "classic Tetris" is rather vague. That's what I understand by it:

• a randomizer close to memoryless
• no hold
• 1 preview
• nearly no lock delay
• short entry delay

A randomizer that gives you droughts and floodings is a must in my opinion. 1 preview is optional. I have no problems with 2 (or even 3) previews. Also, lock delay should never last longer than 3 times the current falling speed. I'd prefer having step reset (pieces have to fall at least one step so that lock delay is reset). To make games with long lock delay difficult, the pieces must appear immeaditely on the ground. I don't like this behaviour. It's nicer to play and watch pieces falling steadily.

I'd also like to see this:

• harddrop
• charging DAS allowed during line clear delay
• longer entry delay, when your last piece landed rather high in the matrix
• pieces accelerate a bit during their fall (to reduce the disadvantement of stacking higher)

About customizability: There should be options to turn off ghost piece, customize autorepeat rate and customize keys/buttons. Back then, there were no standards, how pieces should spawn. So I'd predefine some choosable templates(modern,GameBoy,NES/SNES,TGM) and also allow to customize color and initial orientation for each Tetris piece like Cultris 2 does. Additionally, I'd allow to choose between left (Gameboy) and right alignment (NES/SNES), to choose between 2 or 4 orientations for I,S and Z pieces and to choose between Nintendo or TGM style rotation (TGM = move piece 1 step down in up orientation). Ta-dah! Nearly every official game can be simulated. And nobody has a real advantage to play the way she prefers!

Now, let's come to the modes. Until now, I spoke about Marathon only. But there are 2 further modes with classic ruleset that I'd like to see.

• Marathon: Scoring system like in NES/GameBoy Tetris. Level increases every 10 lines. You should be able to start on level 10+. Then, next level will come 5 * (starting level - 9) lines earlier (start at level 19 -> level 20 comes after 150 lines instead of 200 lines). Speed gets finally so high that you top out.
• Survivor: Garbage lines appear after a certain amount of time. The insertion speed depends on the current level. You level up after a certain amount of cleared garbage lines. You should be able to choose the starting level.
• Multiplayer:I don't have to explain that. You send lines by doing Doubles, Triples and Tetrises. But one important thing is that you can choose between easy, medium and hard garbage when creating a room. Easy garbage is the straight/lined up garbage used in old games. Hard garbage could be: 80 % chance for hole change for each garbage line. Tetrises should only send 3 lines for hard garbage or you'd be topped out too fast.

[Rosti_LFC]

I think the problem with this sort of thing for Tetris is that it's already so varied and diverse that it's hard to unify back to something that will please everyone. Some people love NES Tetris, whilst I personally don't enjoy playing it at all. I'm sure some people dislike TGM (though I don't see how...   ). Some people think Tetris should be single player only and find multiplayer to be stupid. People have different tastes.

For example:

A randomizer that gives you droughts and floodings is a must in my opinion.

I'd also like to see this:

• longer entry delay, when your last piece landed rather high in the matrix
• pieces accelerate a bit during their fall (to reduce the disadvantement of stacking higher)

I'm pretty sure a lot of people will disagree with you about the randomiser (I do). Some might also disagree with the other two. I don't like the idea of variable entry delay, because I just feel it'd be impossible to get into the rhythm of the speed of the game if it's constantly changing depending on your stack height. Similar for piece acceleration, where I think it's good that stacking high is a disadvantage in terms of death, but allows faster play - that risk/reward aspect is a huge part of TGM1 time attack.

Whilst I agree TTC could do a shitload better than their latest series of games, I think they'll find it impossible to please everyone. For example, there are a lot of people who like Hold and T-Spins, and a see them as being a key component of the game now. When they were introduced there were a lot of people who considered them as game-breaking and sacrilege ("It's called Tetris, not T-spin!") and probably still think so.

But hey, disagreement makes discussion and interesting threads and I'm curious to see what comes out of this.

One thing I will press you down on though:

To make games with long lock delay difficult, the pieces must appear immeaditely on the ground. I don't like this behaviour. It's nicer to play and watch pieces falling steadily.

That first sentence there is wrong. Whether you prefer 20G aesthetically and in terms of gameplay is subjective, but I'll say outright that without floorkicks it's substantially harder to play at 1-10G than it is to play at 20G. You can ask any experienced TGM player out there (TGM basically being the only popular game AFAIK where you have no floorkicks and 20G) and they'll say the same. With high but sub-20G gravity it's hard to judge if you'll DAS over bits that stick up when you've got the pieces falling, whilst for 20G you know for sure they won't. It's a lot easier to screw up in TGM1 between levels 300-500 than 500+. It's also partly why Sega Tetris is hard despite never reaching 20G - it would probably be easier if it did.

What makes games with long lock delay easy (besides the long lock delay) is the ability to wallkick over stuff, because it basically makes the gravity irrelevant anyway. If you don't believe me, try no-floorkick ARS 20G with infinite lock delay - players who don't know how to stack for ARS find it surprisingly difficult despite the zero enforced speed. Yet on the same settings with floorkick SRS any half-decent player can play forever quite easily.

[Integration]

I'm pretty sure a lot of people will disagree with you about the randomiser (I do).

I say randomizer must be hard, so that the game is still interesting in earlier levels. If gravity is still low, you can stack higher in general. But what happens, when you get a drought of I pieces paired with a flood of S and Z pieces while stacking high? Then, things get interesting. With an easy randomizer, you can only screw up by failing to do certain moves. I doubt people enjoy failing - especially when there is no visual feedback telling them why they failed.

Some might also disagree with the other two. I don't like the idea of variable entry delay, because I just feel it'd be impossible to get into the rhythm of the speed of the game if it's constantly changing depending on your stack height.

I meant a difference of just 1 to 4 frames. As far as I know, NES Tetris does this and I haven't heard anybody complaining about it.

Whilst I agree TTC could do a shitload better than their latest series of games, I think they'll find it impossible to please everyone.

It's easier to please everyone by supporting a great variety of modes. Make the game you wanna make, but also include additional classic modes! It's not that much more work and it's worth it. I say, Sprint and Ultra are pretty lame in comparison to classic Marathon. And things like Field Climber or Stage Racer are just unimportant gimmicks. That's my opinion. Other people might think different.

For example, there are a lot of people who like Hold and T-Spins, and a see them as being a key component of the game now. When they were introduced there were a lot of people who considered them as game-breaking and sacrilege ("It's called Tetris, not T-spin!") and probably still think so.

Hold is bad because it disrupts the flow of a Marathon game.  It's a bad idea to reward T-spins without sufficient long lock delay. As I explained, lock delay is a bad idea for Marathon. I don't like when I can't reach a spot near a wall, just because the shape in the middle of my stack doesn't allow it. 20g forces you to build pyramids, whereas without lock delay the most stable stack is mountain-valley-mountain-shaped.

What makes games with long lock delay easy (besides the long lock delay) is the ability to wallkick over stuff, because it basically makes the gravity irrelevant anyway.

If your pieces spawn in down orientation (Nintento, NOT TGM), you don't need neccessarily floorkicks to get over a ledge. Another reason to shorten lock delay (to support previous rotation systems for large variability).

[Rosti_LFC]

With an easy randomizer, you can only screw up by failing to do certain moves. I doubt people enjoy failing - especially when there is no visual feedback telling them why they failed.

With an easy randomiser you can only screw up by being bad. As opposed to screwing up because you were hanging on for a certain piece that never came, or were starved of I/J/L for too long.

There's no reason to make the early levels challenging to high-level players - it's how difficulty curves in games are meant to work. The trick is either making the difficulty progress quickly enough, or allow players to choose their starting level, so you don't have to play for 10 minutes before it gets interesting. Introducing random crap that has the ability to just fuck over a player regardless of their skill level, so that hard players still find the early game difficult, is not good game design. I would say people definitely don't enjoy failing when the reason they failed is random improbably strings of pieces that were out of their control.

I don't like when I can't reach a spot near a wall, just because the shape in the middle of my stack doesn't allow it.

On the other hand I specifically like games where players who can't stack properly are punished for it. If a shape in the middle of your stack doesn't allow you to place a piece where you want to, then you should have kept better control of your stack shape, worked your piece previews better, etc. I think the idea of being to place a piece anywhere so long as you can mash buttons quickly enough is against one of the key aspects of Tetris.

[Integration]

With an easy randomiser you can only screw up by being bad. As opposed to screwing up because you were hanging on for a certain piece that never came, or were starved of I/J/L for too long.

You don't top out just because an I piece doesn't come. You top out because an I piece doesn't come AND you were too aggressive. And that's the interesting part: be aggressive and risk death OR play safe but end up with an average transition score?

There's no reason to make the early levels challenging to high-level players - it's how difficulty curves in games are meant to work. The trick is either making the difficulty progress quickly enough, or allow players to choose their starting level, so you don't have to play for 10 minutes before it gets interesting.

In GameBoy Tetris level 9 is not challenging (note, level 9 is the highest starting level without heart mode, using heart mode steals you points). It's a good game though. You can win/lose points in early levels. Still, levels 14+ are decisive. If you'd be able to start there and screw up after 40 lines you'd just say to yourself: Nevermind, I can restart! However, after 140 lines you don't think so. You try to give your best even if you were unlucky. I finish all matches I play. On level 20 I still can earn the points, which make a bad match a good one.

I think the idea of being to place a piece anywhere so long as you can mash buttons quickly enough is against one of the key aspects of Tetris.

There'll always be spots that are harder to reach than others. If you get to the desired spot in last milisecond, it means you have less time to prepare for the next piece, if entry delay and lineclear delay aren't too long.

[Rosti_LFC]

You don't top out just because an I piece doesn't come. You top out because an I piece doesn't come AND you were too aggressive. And that's the interesting part: be aggressive and risk death OR play safe but end up with an average transition score?

I completely agree with this argument (I'd expected it), but I think if you're trying to base how people feel when playing the game, it doesn't apply.

For something like no floorkicks, it's a predictable behaviour. Sure, it makes the game hard and more punishing, but it's far easier to link it back to it being your fault. When you can't place a piece somewhere it's clear that it's because you made that dumb bit that sticks up and stops you (I-piece rotation is a big exception for ARS though, especially if you're used to SRS). It's the same as a jump in a platformer where you need to jump off the last few pixels of a ledge to make it - the game mechanics make it hard but ultimately when you die you know that you're the one that fucked up. And it will always be your fault because the rule of what works and what doesn't is clearly defined if the game is well-designed.

On the other hand the randomiser you have no control of. Sure, you can skim, but especially at a lower level when you get a shitty run of pieces you just feel like the game is fucking you over. It doesn't easily trace back to the core mistakes you made of stacking too high or badly because you feel that the game was obliged to give you that piece you needed at some point in the last 15 or so, and it's just probability and the randomiser and Tetris being evil that caused you to die. And that leads to frustration, because you can lose an otherwise good run and not feel like it was actually your fault, even if in reality it partially was.

I think an overly predictable randomiser (7bag) does detract and make the game a bit too easy if you know what's going on, but I think a pure randomiser like the classic Tetris ones is similarly bad in the other direction because it can add such a huge factor of luck in there.

Your best run is almost always going to be one where you were slightly lucky - where you took chances and the randomiser was kind to you and didn't punish you for it. All adding more luck in the randomiser does is reward risk-taking in the long term because players who take more risks will eventually end up with higher scores than more skilled but more cautious players.

A player who ignores any care for stack height or cautiousness and only clears Tetrises will die for the overwhelming majority of games, because all you need is one period with not enough I-pieces and you're topped out by default. Almost all piece sequences long enough to finish marathon game modes with a pure randomiser will probably have these relative droughts at some point, but all you need is to play enough games to get one that lets you survive the whole way and you're done. And you've negated what many people would consider to be a significant part of the skill of the game.

Obviously live tournaments take this factor out, but for a lot of single player modes players are judged on high score rather than their ability to produce consistently every game. And in that case by introducing a high luck factor you're reducing how much skill matters in comparison to just playing high-risk, dying a lot and grinding enough games out to get that one big pay-off.

[mobuco]

They're some people here who stuck to their old version (1989) of Tetris with all their flaws and poor graphics.

whoa...what flaws? Poor graphics...please who needs blocks in any better resolution.

[Integration]

I think an overly predictable randomiser (7bag) does detract and make the game a bit too easy if you know what's going on, but I think a pure randomiser like the classic Tetris ones is similarly bad in the other direction because it can add such a huge factor of luck in there.

I think having a certain luck factor is important for both singleplayer and multiplayer. Of course, luck shouldn't have too much influence on highscores. That's why I prefer Marathon to last 200+ lines.

I agree, memoryless randomizer causes a certain frustration. This doesn't mean you'll enjoy being freed from this frustration in the long run. Where's the sense in playing Marathon when even beginners manage to stack holeless? Where's the sense in playing endless Marathon on Tetris DX or Tetris DS? And again: 20g causes much more frustration. At least it makes me go mad.

whoa...what flaws?

Let's see. In my opinion that are the flaws that all old games made:

• no ghost piece: The ghost piece feature is a big help for both beginners and veterans. It's interesting how late it was introduced
• no harddrop: The origninal Tetris game had harddrop. Why didn't games have it additionally to softdrop from 1988 onwards? It would have been so easy to bind harddrop to cursor up.
• no alternating falling speeds: Let's take NES Tetris for example: Level 28 -> 2 frames per gravity step/gridcell, Level 29 -> 1 frame per gravity step. That means pieces fall double as fast on level 29 (instant death). Why not making level 29 alternating: 1 frame for 1st step, 2 frames for 2nd step, 1 frame for 3rd step, 2 frames for 4th step and so on...
• S and Z pieces don't stay in the middle when being rotated: I think this origates from the original game (right alignment/righthanded, down spawining orientation, just one rotation direction, namely anticlockwise). It's what frustrates me most in old games.

[Rosti_LFC]

Where's the sense in playing Marathon when even beginners manage to stack holeless?

Which is why I champion the TGM 'Marathon' modes, where it takes months if not years of honing skills to be able to finish them, let alone finish them with good scores. Beginners can do well enough to get hooked, but can far from stack holeless. All TGM games use a randomiser that gives a fairer than random distribution (the first being less fair than the two sequels), but not to the extent where you can predict your next pieces and don't ever get droughts.

And again: 20g causes much more frustration. At least it makes me go mad.

And my favourite mode, TA Death, is 20G the whole way. Like I said in my first post, people have completely different ideas of what constitutes a good or fun Tetris mode.

[InkofDeath]

I sent an email that contained suggestions to improve the TF Arena and TB versions of Tetris.

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]Hello Tetris Online,

Through many games played in the Tetris Friends Arena, I have noticed the
low quality spectator options available. In the pursuit to increase
Tetris's popularity, via streams, recordings, and offline viewings, the
spectator feature has been an obstacle. It would be a huge advantage to
everyone who shares the game via the tools mentioned above to improve the
spectator feature.

Conducting video lessons, casting, general recordings & livestreams, and
more, would all benefit from the improvements listed below to the spectator
function in the Arena.


Suggested Improvements:

- Allow all of the following to be turned on, or of, or adjusted
to appropriate values to reduce lag or conflicts

- Increase the update rate of each player preview screen

- Increase the framerate of each player preview screen

- Show a box in the UI of each player preview screen to show the current
piece held

- Show a box that tracks the APM/PPM of each player in the player preview
screen for their current game

- Show a box that shows the current number of lines sent by each player in
the player preview screen of their current game

- Show a box that tracks the current amount of TSpins/Tetris/Combos
conducted by each player in the player preview screen of their current game

- Show a box that tracks the number of lines cleared by each player in the
player preview screen of their current game


Many of us within the Tetris community want to spread the unique fun that
Tetris Friends Arena presents to our friends offline and online. Please
enable us to do this through improvements to the spectator function.

Thank you,[/quote]

I just want their spectating features to improve on Tetris Battle, and in the TF Arena. So many possibilities if they were improved.

[XaeL]

As a noob in both nes and tgm, they are both fun in completely different ways. Nes i feel like the slow das is really frustrating because as the field gets higher i can't stack as aggressively, TGM the pure speed and sound has a nice feel to it.

[yotipo91]

NES and TGM frustrate me equally because I have no idea what I'm doing and don't play them much and don't have the largest community. These essay styled debates are intense and fired with a passion I can't even imagine to argue with.

I don't have much reason to dislike TTC. TTC has a function as a business and it has the audience it wants. I think it's hard to profit off a game that ideally should not be profitible, but someone has to be in charge. I think they advertise well and get a large amount of people interested in the game with decent revenue. They've covered all major gaming devices with at least one Tetris title. But I do agree it would be nice to have a more fluid official PC client. I'm sure they don't want to fix what isn't broken though.

[Blink]

I've been disappointed with TTC because with Tetris Battle, you can see that their direction and vision for the future of Tetris is one that focuses on money rather than quality.

They have an extremely large userbase that I feel they should be doing so much more with.  Right now it's just a large userbase, but not much of a community.  Community events, tournaments, and just overall interaction and communicating with their userbase would go a long way.  Instead I get the vibe like they are content with just trying to make as much money as possible off the current players who are playing.  

It's pretty obvious with how everything costs money.  It will cost you to simply get the controls to work the way you want them, and once you get that going you need energy just to play which you have to purchase more of after you run out.  There's advertisements everywhere, feels like playing a shareware game.  Promotions seem to update frequently yet the game itself has seen little change since the last time I tried it almost a year ago.  Even the live multiplayer isn't ready after how long now?  It seems like TTC wants to model themselves after Zynga, the makers of Farmville.  Zynga used to be on top but the fact that it's bleeding heavily and dying now is proof that this business model doesn't last.  Instead look at games like LoL and StarCraft which focus on quality, gameplay balance and their communities and are still growing in userbase and performing extremely well.

To sum things up, I am disappointed with TTC because they're so focused on making money that they are sacrificing too much when it comes to the gameplay.  If instead they would focus on improving the gameplay and building the community, the money will naturally come and they would have a game with a bright future they could truly be proud of while leaving players happier.

[Integration]

I sent an email that contained suggestions to improve the TF Arena and TB versions of Tetris.
I just want their spectating features to improve on Tetris Battle, and in the TF Arena. So many possibilities if they were improved.

If I remember correctly, this was one of the reason why Blink refused to make  a Tetris Battle tournament. Display of hold should be a must. I doubt they will make the game more fluid for spectators though.

NES and TGM frustrate me equally because I have no idea what I'm doing and don't play them much and don't have the largest community.

I know, it's hard to get used to another version of Tetris. If people are used to hold and bag randomizer, they can't live without it. Darn junkies!

Well, there's still a crucial difference between some classic titles and TGM: the historical background. TGM is just an unknown Japanese arcade game from 1998. But certain classic titles have an audience still today. When I bought a GameBoy + cartridge, I was surprised how expensive the cartridge was in comparison to the GameBoy itself. And this despite Tetris was the most produced GameBoy title.

These essay styled debates are intense and fired with a passion I can't even imagine to argue with.

You aren't supposed to debate. You are supposed to rant at TTC and point out how to make it better. The only one who unterstood this until now is InkofDeath.

I don't have much reason to dislike TTC.

Argh! Another slap in my face. I give up.  

They've covered all major gaming devices with at least one Tetris title.

You mean exactly one title. They make that title themselves or license it to EA or Nintendo. The problem with all involved parties is that they don't really love Tetris (e.g. why is their no multiplayer for mobile phones?). People who have their own ideas are ignored. Here an example:

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]Lumines, great game. I mean, it's funny, cause the guy, his name is Mizuguchi, he's a great friend, and Mizuguchi came to me a few years ago, before Lumines, and he said "I've got this great idea and I want to make Tetris on the PSP." and at the time, I was kind of stuck. I had promised the rights to Sony, we were in the middle of negotiations, and I couldn't really give it to him. He goes "Ok, well, I'll have to create my own game." And that was it, man [laughs]. It's like "dang! I should have let him have a shot at Tetris!" And now we're in the same position again. The exact same position. We had breakfast with him this morning, and it's like "uhh, I hate to say this, but we already have somebody licensed for this, for, PSP 2 or whatever it is." [Sighs] It can't be helped.[/quote]

I've been disappointed with TTC because with Tetris Battle, you can see that their direction and vision for the future of Tetris is one that focuses on money rather than quality...

Good boy!  

[Rosti_LFC]

It seems like TTC wants to model themselves after Zynga, the makers of Farmville.  Zynga used to be on top but the fact that it's bleeding heavily and dying now is proof that this business model doesn't last.  Instead look at games like LoL and StarCraft which focus on quality, gameplay balance and their communities and are still growing in userbase and performing extremely well.

Zynga, the makers of Farmville and the absolutely phenomenal amount of cash that came from it, despite it being an incredibly simple and not particularly interesting game (and a concept they totally ripped off someone else).

I don't think that TTC can look at Riot or Blizzard and say "we should be doing what they're doing", because I don't think that in this day and age you can really do LoL or SC2 with Tetris. There's fundamentally not a lot they can really do with Tetris, and there's not a lot they really need to do either.

Sure, they can add shiny graphics, a few gimmicks, etc, but it's still always going to be a 2D "puzzle" game in a world now dominated by 3D graphics and games which provide far more apparent depth than Tetris ever really can. Sure there are still decent 2D games out there, but they're mostly either indie games that don't get sales in the millions like TTC would want, or they're games like the Wii Super Mario game where the gameplay is based around a social aspect that I think would be difficult to do with Tetris.

And ironically there's not much TTC can really do to spice things up because if they stray significantly from the guideline then they risk losing their precious lawsuits.

TTC could do better, could improve the games, could employ a proper development team to do things. Maybe they could even do a decent job as they did with games like Tetris Worlds before Henk went full retard over it. But as it is, it seems that the people who really make the decisions are happy to just keep making money beating a dead horse while they can.

Making a new, good, innovative Tetris game requires investment, effort, and at the end of the day a significant risk that it won't actually bring in many more sales than just pooping out an inferior game on a smaller budget.

We act like we're entitled to have TTC listen to us and do what we want, but the fact is that we're a tiny percentage of players and whether we care if their game is good or not isn't particularly important to them so long as everyone else keeps playing it. And people will, because the overwhelming majority know very little about the finer gameplay aspects of Tetris beyond the shapes and the line clearing. That's why N-Blox got so phenomenally popular years ago, because people would just google "free Tetris" and were happy with whatever crap they were given (and I know a girl who insists N-Blox is "better" than Tetris Friends or Tetris Battle). It's like complaining to Budweiser that they make piss-water beer - they don't give a shit what proper ale drinkers think so long as the majority keep buying it en masse.