What does the Tetris scene need right now?

[ohitsstef]

are you going to use b2ink's clone, paradox?

[belzebub]

Maybe someone can make my sprint guide sticky?

I think the gameplay is ok, lot of people like to play it. What we miss imho is a social aspect and a system orthogonal on the game. That is, people want to compare to other people, want to see improvements, goals to strive for, watch the champions and a lot more.

One of the remarkable things I see on harddrop is that 90% of the players that take part in discussions are sub40. They are probably the people that like the game the most so that correlation is ok. I have most problems when this has an influence e.g. when a tournament is organized. Tournaments don't have divisions for "lower ranked" players (you can't be champion in a lower division). So 'we' exclude a lot of people.

For the time problem, I don't have experience enough, but I think I would do tournament in one specific time interval. So e.g. Saturday Evening we host a tournament and everybody that wants to join it should be online then. People can almost constantly play in the winner/loser brackets and have a nice evening. When they are out they can follow the rest of the tournament and even watch the finals. All people will be online and able to chat, making it very social too.

Also everything around the game. Most people play a few games and stop. There is no greater system to move in. You can also not track your overal progression for games or sprint speed. When you are on tetrisfriends you play until you are rank 20. Then there is nothing more and it gets boring. You don't have goals to achieve or rewards you can get except for getting a better sprint record or so. But that also gets boring, because you play alone all the time.

I honestly don't think that the real challenges are inside the game (other rules, an extra column, etc), but the things around the game.

[Rosti_LFC]

Another side-benefit of some sort of regular, semi-automated tournament system would be the ability to more easily track tournament results into some sort of overall Tetris Elo ranking thing for 'official' tournament matches, like the one xlro suggested last time this sort of thing was brought up. It could provide a bit more incentive for players who are never going to get into the higher rounds of elimination tournaments, because those wins and losses in the early rounds would still count towards some over-arching ranking system (in the same way they do for sports like tennis and golf), which could provide competition from the lowest to the highest levels.

[Beastin_Shen]

I think a strong tetris game that we can advertise willingly(because it looks sharp and plays great) would help, and tournaments.
http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3720

[Paul676]

I forgot to mention more harddrop-centrally organised tournaments. Maybe quarterly HDOs as well as the yearly TTO. Don't bother with discussion of which game to choose, just do it and choose it - that sort of discussion (I'm thinking cultris vs bb here) just ends up with debate about games and bad feeling.

[Paradox]

are you going to use b2ink's clone, paradox?

For the tournament idea i was talking about no, I was referring to something new. I do support b2inks game though.

[InkofDeath]

I am relatively knew to the Tetris community, but I have a ton of experience in hosting competitive events, to both grow a community, and to facilitate that expansion. Mostly in dead F2P games, but I also dabbled in SC2, and LoL events with large success. I have roughly four years of experience working as just a simple admin, all the way to running everything on my own, managing dozens of people, and dealing with hundreds of teams and players. This is just my credibility, in case anyone was unsure of my following points.


Whenever I went to a new community that was either dead, or very small, the key was to highlight and identify the strengths of the community. Once they have been probably identified, it is very easy to start planning how to improve these strengths, and utilize them to propel the community further.


The question was "How to improve the Tetris Community". Hard Drop is a big part of that community, but the Tetris Community and Hard Drop are two different things. You can't improve both of these entities by following the exact same methods. Increasing activity on Hard Drop does not mean the Tetris Community will get larger by any means, it just means Hard Drop will. Growing the Tetris Community will probably make Hard Drop a bit more active, but it will not likely grow Hard Drop's base until the Tetris Community gets several times larger.


This is key to understand before any planning or action is taken. The strengths of the Tetris Community are different from the strengths of the Hard Drop community and site. They may go hand-in-hand, but that does not mean the growth will be equal between them.


My small four months of getting into Tetris tells me these are the strengths of the Tetris Community, and Hard Drop.


Tetris Community:
- Old Community, Has Lasted Through Time
- Very Passionate Community
- Very Knowledgeable About Tetris
- Very Connected Due to Size

These are very strong strengths that are very easy to foster into growth. Most of this would just take a lot of time and dedication. No more than just one person could take the Tetris Community to housing regular 400 entrant events every two weeks. The only problem is finding that person who has that time and dedication.


Hard Drop:
- News, Hard Drop's best selling feature is the news tracking and the discussions that come from all of the coverage, this point is really big and spreads across a lot of categories
- A Knowledgeable Community


Before we move on, we need to identify the main weaknesses too.


Tetris Community:
- Lacks Idols, People to Strive to be Better Than
- Lacks Goals & Motivation To Get Better, To Stay Active in the Community, To Better the Community
- Moderate Professionalism Throughout Conduct, and Discussions
- Split Between Multiple Games != BAD IN EVERY WAY
- Too Many Different Thoughts on Where Tetris Needs to Go, but With No Action by Anyone

To me these weaknesses look very small and insignificant. As in, they can be easily solved, as I'll go into detail later on. To the Tetris Community who are rooted in their ideals, or have been around to find themselves locked in their out-dated opinions, they may seem impossible, or unlikely to solve. This community has the potential to grow much larger (certainly larger than the Brawl community, but smaller than the F2P FPS competitive community) within just two years. It is very doable.


Hard Drop
- Site is Unorganized & Hard to Navigate Around
- Forums Are Mashed Together, Not Enough Conciseness
- News is not a Major Focus/Theme
- Site Looks Like it Belongs in 2005, Same with Forums (not attractive)
- No Reason to Spend More Than 30 Minutes on Hard Drop Each Session

These are the major weaknesses that I see and interpret as negative.


Contrary to what I stated above, there are some general things that will fix a lot of issues. Here are some major solutions:


General solutions:

1. Host Regular Events Every Two Weeks

Consistent, and regular events being hosted on a frequent basis is the single most important factor in growing a community. It provides, 1) Discussions, 2) a Goal to Players & Spectators, 3) a Tool of Measurement for Skill & Community Growth, 4) Tons more. It allows people to discuss who is likely to win, who is improving, how well they think they will do, allows them to look back on their performances and see their individual growth, and set goals for themselves. From this people have something to discuss. They will come to Hard Drop to talk about all of the above, as well as many other topics like how to improve the community, and even volunteer their time to help promote Tetris. Tons of opportunities arise. Facilitating all of this is crucial however. Hard Drop (or someone else) needs to be on the ball and provide that community place for all of this to take place.

The details of the event formats, times, and other logistics can all be decided by the community, and reviewed each time. Best way to provide a fair ground of competition.


2. Stick to One Game, and One Game Only

Having a community split is asking for trouble. It does not work. Will never work. It will stifle discussions, cause ripples in events and players, and hold everything back. Hard Drop needs to endorse just one game, and one game only. Events need to be played on one game, and one game only. Nothing else, no divergence. It will cripple the community. The community is already small, why make it even smaller.

Personal opinion here, but that game should obviously be Tetris Friends, and only Tetris Friends. What makes this such a simple and obvious decision is how TTC/TH/TOI have fought against Tetris clones, and have enforced their licenses and copyright privileges. It makes no sense to use any other clone that is not licensed by TTC. If another game is used to foster growth, and that growth happens, it will take TTC less than a few months to shut everything down. Open source? Sucks when you can't stream that on Twitch, Own3d, or any other streaming site, or put VoDs on YouTube. And if Hard Drop is endorsing illegal clones of Tetris, any advertisements or ad programs can be pulled too, there won't be any sponsors sponsoring prizes...etc.

TF is not a perfect platform, but it is pretty good, even if it has lag at times, and has a terrible spectator option. My advice is to get over the flaws, and deal with it, if you are wanting things to grow without hassle from TTC. I do not know of one single argument or point that can trump my opinion here on the licensing issues. 'TF is bad', is a poor approach, and is simply a purist movement. Nothing is ever perfect, but the best choice is always there.


3. Promotion

As soon as events are announced, there needs to be discussion topics. There needs to be predictions and coverage. Something the community can leech off of in order to start their own discussions. This is promotion and Hard Drop/Event Organizers need to be at the start of this promotion. Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Hard Drop Forums, Twitch.TV, and maybe even getting TOI to endorse or support some events. Everything needs to be pushed out and then maintained in a flow to get the most out of every event or activity that occurs within the Tetris Community.


4. Streaming:

Hard Drop's stream needs to be more professional. It was very confusing to have 4-6 people casting a game, or at least, casually talking about the game that was being broadcasted. It took me awhile to get used to it, and also a month of playing Tetris to get all the lingo that was being used. My advice is to limit it to 2, at the most 3, casters. As well as ensure they are not talking too deeply in Tetris lingo that newcomers will be lost in. This is a major turnoff, and should be realized.

Visually, the stream is ok, but there are vast improvements that can be made. Utilizing the Scenes to provide a much smoother stream without hopping between the Arena Lobby, or having to look around for event information would be considerable improvements. Would also provide attractiveness to new viewers.

Hard Drop can also contact Twitch, and potentially get a 30 minute reserved slot on the front page if you gave them all of the tourney information. You would have to give an exact time of when the finals would take place - which means the event would need to have a lot more structure and organizing than in past events I have watched. It is an opportunity that should be seeked out.


Individuals need to start streaming. Tetris should be on the first page of streams on Twitch (or Own3D), with only needing 300 viewers to do so. The better players in the community should start streaming at set times throughout the week. Their motivation is to better the community and provide more exposure to the community. Getting at least ten regular Tetris streamers would be perfect.



Those are just some general solutions that will fix a lot of things.



Tetris Community solutions:

1. Be Nice to Newcomers

Happens in every community that has users who have been around for awhile. The feeling of superiority and elitism needs to be quelled. Be nice, and help out. Don't come off as rude, or obnoxious, nor downplay someone's post or opinion.


2. Revitalize That Passion:

Play Tetris well? Stream yourself. Tetris Theories? Post them. Discuss them. Make videos of these theories, show videos of you playing...anything. Any material at all, and just keep producing it. This, plus regular events will rocket the community to a new level of popularity.


3. Advertise Hard Drop on Tetris Friends:

There are a ton of people on TF. Tell them about Hard Drop, and this community. Advertise the upcoming tournament in any of the Arena chats. Tell people about Hard Drop, and explain what this community is for. TF has a huge userbase, tap into it - a huge portion of TF players have no idea what Hard Drop is. Fix that. Everyone should pitch in here.

As well, linking to streams, or telling them to watch certain players (YouTube/Streams) to get better is also great.




Hard Drop Solutions:

1. Streamline News

News should be right there, easy to look at it, and attractive. Right now the home page is ugly, and it is drowned out by the community features present on there. Homepage should be dedicated to Tetris news (new events, new videos, quality posts, general news), and not have "Recent Logins", or a shoutbox clogging things up. It is not fluid and is not an appealing homepage at all.

2. Redo the Forums

Forums are so small in the choice of what you want to talk about. Not everyone wants to talk about Tetris 24/7 on here. More Off-Topic choices is always a gateway to a more active forum. If enough people agree, I'll post a few ways that the forums could be re-organized for much better activity and bonding of the community. For now, I am getting tired of writing this entire post to go into that much detail.


3. Forum Events

Player of the Month, Video of the Week, Fastest Time (40L) of the Month, Streamer of the Month...etc. These small types of events are a great way to cause incentive for activity and increases community spirit. Anything that gets people involved is always a positive.



Overall, there is a lot of potential in this community. It is never impossible to take a community and make it explode in activity. More ways to improve the community will become apparent if the above is pursued in any capacity. There is also a lot more I left out simply because I was getting tired of writing so much, but if there's questions or disagreements, I'll be happy to indulge on those.

Hope Tetris gets larger!

[Estrelleta]

I think you make good points and suggestions except:

2. Stick to One Game, and One Game Only

That will never work, no one wants to give up much better games than tetris friends, when they give so many more options and better gameplay in just about every way; at the same time tetris friends has a massive amount of players for other reasons. I really don't think there is any way that Hard Drop could chose to endorse only one game, and even if this happened "officially" (Blink and admins decide we must stick to tetris friends) people would never go for that.

[InkofDeath]

I think you make good points and suggestions except:

2. Stick to One Game, and One Game Only

That will never work, no one wants to give up much better games than tetris friends, when they give so many more options and better gameplay in just about every way; at the same time tetris friends has a massive amount of players for other reasons. I really don't think there is any way that Hard Drop could chose to endorse only one game, and even if this happened "officially" (Blink and admins decide we must stick to tetris friends) people would never go for that.

Yes, I don't imagine it would be easy, and dozens of communities have tried to stick to one game, and it often doesn't last very long. However, in those situations, there was no pressure from the companies who owned the games.

I don't quite know the history of the legal issues events have had with the TTC, but I am aware of the more recent troubles Tetris clones have been having. To me that is a very big hint that trying to conduct events with unauthorized Tetris clones is going to attract negative attention from TTC.

As well, I have had very irritating conflicts with publishers and developers around the use of their games being on streams, prizes being offered, money being made off of their IP, and sponsors (that compete with their game & industry) being advertised right along with their game. I can only imagine how much worse it could be with illegal clones of Tetris being used - even without any monetary component involved. The dealings I have had, most notably with Blizzard, strikes me that TTC should be contacted by Hard Drop/event organizers to try and get them involved in anything Tetris related that spawns from this community. Though, I have no idea how TTC treats, or conducts with its customers/players in this manner.

Cultris and Null are amazing and outshine TF by a huge margin. However, it just depends on how far people want Tetris to go.

[Rosti_LFC]

I think you make good points and suggestions except:

2. Stick to One Game, and One Game Only

That will never work, no one wants to give up much better games than tetris friends

Who says it has to be Tetris Friends?

I think it's a perfectly valid point that having multiple popular games has always split and fragmented the Tetris community. If everyone who played Nullpomino/Cultris/TOP instead just played one of those games, and all tournaments were focused around that one game, and there was a proper scene built around it, then we'd be in a far stronger position.

People are always going to want to stick to whatever game they're most used to, but that'll only happen for so long and eventually any game with a far stronger scene will prevail - look at the likes of Blockbox and TetriNET.

Pour our efforts into one game, into playing it, raising awareness for it, improving the actual game itself and the multiplayer dynamic, and there's the possibility to actually go somewhere. With the added benefit, if it isn't a TTC game, of the community having direct control over how the game actually works and feels.

[ohitsstef]

I think you make good points and suggestions except:

2. Stick to One Game, and One Game Only

That will never work, no one wants to give up much better games than tetris friends, when they give so many more options and better gameplay in just about every way; at the same time tetris friends has a massive amount of players for other reasons. I really don't think there is any way that Hard Drop could chose to endorse only one game, and even if this happened "officially" (Blink and admins decide we must stick to tetris friends) people would never go for that.

Actually back when HD first started most of the users played Blockbox. Blink endorsed it on the SB, held the first HDO for it I believe? etc etc. Then after a few months he moved to other games, and a lot of the users moved with him. BB - TOJ - Nullpomino - TF - Nullpomino - TOJ - C2.

(When I say endorsed I mean he talked about it a lot on the Shoutbox, held tournaments and said it was his favorite platform.)

Simply put any game that Blink plays the most (at the moment) or says he likes, people will move towards because it's Blink. (I hope this doesn't make his head big.) So I think it's possible for us to focus on one platform as long as we work towards it like Rosti said.

[Integration]

My small four months of getting into Tetris tells me these are the strengths of the Tetris Community, and Hard Drop.

Tetris Community:
- Old Community, Has Lasted Through Time
- ...
- Very Connected Due to Size

I don't think so. For example have a look at Harddrop:
Most people here are below 25 years, having made their first Tetris experiences on Tetris DS or later guideline games. Cctually, only few people were Tetrinet players. When you mean, Tetris is old and won't suddenly disappear, then yes. Well, but the times, where Tetris could have been considered the best video game lie before my birth.

And in my opinion, the community is split. Basically, there are 4 game groups, which are popular among hardcore Tetris fans:

1. Guideline multiplayer games/clones
2. Classic singleplayer
3. Multiplayer clones dedicated to classic games
4. The Grand Master series

I'd say, 65 % of HDers are stick to one of those group, 30 % spend their time on exactly two of them and only 5 % on at least three of those groups.

Hard Drop is supposed to be a Tetris Fan site for ALL tetris fans, where everyone is welcome regardless of skill level or prefered Tetris game. But still, the only discussed topic is guideline. And that won't change. TetrisConcept is probably the better playce for groups 2 and 4. And at this moment, the only notatable non-guideline multiplayer game is Cultris, so people, who prefer 3., will rather post in the Cultris forums.

[InkofDeath]

Who says it has to be Tetris Friends?

...all tournaments were focused around that one game, and there was a proper scene built around it, then we'd be in a far stronger position.

Pour our efforts into one game, into playing it, raising awareness for it, improving the actual game itself and the multiplayer dynamic, and there's the possibility to actually go somewhere.

Exactly my point. Any game will do, as long as the focus is on one singular game. There can still be discussions about other games, and even smaller events hosted, but the main focus, what everyone regards to as 'the Tetris game' needs to be there. Without such a mentality over one of the many Tetris games, the scene will not be able to grow on its own.

I think a relationship with TTC needs to be developed, regardless of if a TTC game, clone, or some other variant is chosen. Even without picking just one game, the relationship with the developer is a very key feature into building a proper scene. It is one of the many vital aspects for a healthy scene.

[Paradox]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--] 4. Streaming:

Hard Drop's stream needs to be more professional. It was very confusing to have 4-6 people casting a game, or at least, casually talking about the game that was being broadcasted. It took me awhile to get used to it, and also a month of playing Tetris to get all the lingo that was being used. My advice is to limit it to 2, at the most 3, casters. As well as ensure they are not talking too deeply in Tetris lingo that newcomers will be lost in. This is a major turnoff, and should be realized.

Visually, the stream is ok, but there are vast improvements that can be made. Utilizing the Scenes to provide a much smoother stream without hopping between the Arena Lobby, or having to look around for event information would be considerable improvements. Would also provide attractiveness to new viewers.

Hard Drop can also contact Twitch, and potentially get a 30 minute reserved slot on the front page if you gave them all of the tourney information. You would have to give an exact time of when the finals would take place - which means the event would need to have a lot more structure and organizing than in past events I have watched. It is an opportunity that should be seeked out.


Individuals need to start streaming. Tetris should be on the first page of streams on Twitch (or Own3D), with only needing 300 viewers to do so. The better players in the community should start streaming at set times throughout the week. Their motivation is to better the community and provide more exposure to the community. Getting at least ten regular Tetris streamers would be perfect. [/quote]

QFT. These are thoughts that I always try to bring up. Its really hard to stream in an organized manner but its definitely something that can be improved over time.

[bigwig]

As a corollary to the Player of the month thread, there should be a goal of the month thread where people post what they are going to achieve by the 31st. Record threads are a good idea and a sounds pillar to talk about each game and mode.

I don't really agree that it's the staff's "fault" for not "producing content" because being a "moderation" team doesn't imply they owe us much. However, I do agree that while the moderation is good it could stand to be a bit more transparent.

What they are not too harsh about and might need to crack down on is sarcasm. I've seen WAAAY too many noob/intro threads people are just confused because one person will tell the noobie not to listen to someone or give really bad advice, and it's just not helpful or even inspired.

I don't know what to think about the shoutbox. On one hand, it helped people like Estrella get into the community very fast because she is on AN ABSOLUTELY INSANE AMOUNT OF TIME. Which is great. But I do wonder how many people who do not have that amount of time or who do not feel comfortable talking to everyone about everything may find jumping into a live conversation too intimidating because they will a)feel like they're intruding b)they are just flat out ignored c) They feel like they might be completely ignored if no one happens to be looking at the box for 5 minutes.

We do NOT want people's first interactions on this site to be shouting into the wind, and I fear it often is.

If the shoutbox was more like irc where you have to click to join and you can clearly see who is on or inactive then it might not seem so alien. It may just be best to move to a separate page.