Unreliable Tournament Players List

[Beastin_Shen]

not really fair game to put me on a list with rules I wasn't even aware of

im going to have to agree with this. these rules weren't in place until just now, to my knowledge.

the idea of penalizing players for dropping out of a tournament isnt something i agree with either. it happens at all levels(i.e. sc2 pros) for various reasons. especially when the tourney formats you tend to go by last months...

if you dont want people to drop a prize tourney, have it over 1 weekend or something.

[Paul676]

it's not dropping out per se, it's dropping out for no perceived good reason, or not providing a good reason

[Rosti_LFC]

the idea of penalizing players for dropping out of a tournament isnt something i agree with either. it happens at all levels(i.e. sc2 pros) for various reasons. especially when the tourney formats you tend to go by last months...

if you dont want people to drop a prize tourney, have it over 1 weekend or something.

Some pro SC2 players have had issues (DeMuslim comes to mind) with these sorts of things recently, but it's not the same thing. Qualifying for a tournament months away and later finding out you can't make it because you're not in the country is different to signing up for a tournament only two weeks away and then pulling out halfway through.

Most of the tournaments aren't rigidly structured enough that people need to drop out. If you're asking someone to play at an exact time on an exact day, and they didn't know this exact time when they signed up, then fair enough if they can't compete. When you're asking people just to organise a single match at some point over the span of a week and they can't even manage that, then it's different. If you're so busy that you can't spare an hour over the course of a week then you definitely should have known that in advance, because people's lives don't typically just do that without prior warning.

These tournaments never require someone to be at a specific location on a specific date. They almost never require people to play their match at a scheduled time where they've had no input and/or leeway in scheduling it.

If these were prize tournaments and weren't so reliant on people going out of their way to organise them, I wouldn't care so much. If the ratio of players with sh** organisational skills that end up dropping out was lower, I wouldn't care so much. But they're not. This isn't one or two players out of a hundred or so pulling out or forgetting to turn up to their games (lolSheth). It's a far bigger issue than that, and I think if you want people to keep bothering to run tournaments (why is there no 3rd season of the HDTL, for example) then there needs to be a greater level of respect for the organisers and stricter sanctions on people who dick them around.

[DAS44]

Hmm.. :/

This is where it becomes hard to judge this. I'm sorry Blaze, I should have waited a bit to hear back from you (possibly), before kicking you. In the end it needed to get moving, something had to kick it into motion. Sorry man

I don't believe either of them should be put on this list by the way.

[Rosti_LFC]

I would also like to say two more things:

1) Things are probably rarely going to be clear cut on this sort of thing. Sometimes it'll be fairly obvious, sometimes it won't. And difficult decisions are typically worse to make when you know the people affected by it.

2) This is a community problem, and it's something that we're going to have to sort out and fix as a community. People should feel free to comment on the criteria and the decisions made on this issue.

[XaeL]

I think only tournament directors should be adding people to this list...

[ohitsstef]

I think only tournament directors should be adding people to this list...

I have to agree with this - DAS would know what's going on more than someone else that's just skimming through the thread.
And dropping out of the tournament due to frustration is different than not making an effort to schedule matches at all - I can understand why he'd want to drop out with the tournament not really going anywhere.

[xlro]

I think only tournament directors should be adding people to this list...

this

[Paradox]

I think there shouldn't be a subjective list of players that entitles them "unreliable". Its insulting.

[Blink]

I think only tournament directors should be adding people to this list...

Okay makes sense, I won't be adding anymore players unless it's a tournament I'm in charge of since the tournament directors know the player's situation better than I do.

I think there shouldn't be a subjective list of players that entitles them "unreliable". Its insulting.

It's used to deter players from not putting any effort into playing their matches.  I agree there shouldn't be a need for this thread, but the amount of failed tournaments and drop out ratios for tournaments on here mean we have to start trying things.  Feel free to suggest some more ideas to increase the success rate of tournaments.


I was thinking of having this list include reports for tournament directors who create a tournament thread and then don't do anything after that, or don't bother replying to their participants when they report problems. Sometimes it's not the player's fault but rather a tournament director who doesn't care about their own tournament.  That way we can prevent that director from repeatedly hosting bad tournaments and killing the experience for players who enter them.  Is that going too far?

I think frequent communication on threads by the tournament director is a must so that player's know what's going on.  Failed tournaments are going to happen, but if both the players and tournament director have done their parts it should reduce the percentage.

[Rosti_LFC]

I think the tournament director thing is going too far. For one, there aren't really enough of them in the first place to need some sort of list to keep track. For two, you're assuming that if a tournament director stops caring it's entirely his issue, whereas in my experience it's quite often just participants being so indifferent and useless that it's fairly difficult to stay enthusiastic.

[ohitsstef]

I was thinking of having this list include reports for tournament directors who create a tournament thread and then don't do anything after that, or don't bother replying to their participants when they report problems. Sometimes it's not the player's fault but rather a tournament director who doesn't care about their own tournament.  That way we can prevent that director from repeatedly hosting bad tournaments and killing the experience for players who enter them.  Is that going too far?

I think frequent communication on threads by the tournament director is a must so that player's know what's going on.  Failed tournaments are going to happen, but if both the players and tournament director have done their parts it should reduce the percentage.

I have to agree with Rosti that a list of tournament directors would be going to far. For one - even if the director is passionate in messaging the players, it isn't the director's responsibility for them to play.. it's the players who sign up.

Also, I find that constant messaging from a director about a tournament actually kills my experience in the game. Especially when the tournament director doesn't know how to go about messaging and reminding players.
A reminder here and there is alright, but constant nagging is obnoxious.

[riisssaaa]

I'm not familiar with tetris tournaments but this thread was interesting and caught my eye. Shouldn't this issue be very simple?

1. Sometimes unexpected things might occur and a player may not be able to play during the tournament duration.
  - If they have a sufficient reason such as an illness that restricts their mobility or consciousness or a sudden peak of work needed
to be done~ moving due to family issues whatnot - they should be excused, yes?
  - If they have proof that they have been actively communicating with the other player they should be fine, no?

2. If a player drops out how to prevent a match from becoming disorganised? (I don't actually know what kind of system each tornament
uses; ladder or elimination etc.) But the player who drops out in a tournament should just be given a forfeiture or automatic loss
for the round they dropped out of, then, in the next round they can be excluded from the ongoing tournament.

3. What then should be a deterrence? A suspension perhaps? Eg if you drop out in Tournament A without good reason then you
are suspended from one season of Tournament A but not Tournament B or C perhaps.


Do you guys agree with my suggestions? It might work~ But again I don't know much about the tournaments. I hope it hasnt wasted your time reading this.  

[killahbee]

Of course I understand that "things come up" and it's not within our control. However, this is mainly a commitment issue. There are a LOT of times where people just decide not to play because they have a lot of "school work" (I've been through my fair share of school and it's safe to say they... most of the time they give you an outline) and even then, I'm almost POSITIVE you can find half an hour in your BUSY schedule to play one match per week, or one match per two weeks.

If there are a bracket of 32 people and half of them don't play or just decide not to randomly... the other half may feel no one cares for the tournament and psychologically change their mind of how much the remaining players "care" for the tournament.... pretty much it's down hill from there.

I have a good idea myself which players are considered "unreliable" but that is a personal preference. If I host a tournament I believe I have a right (with sufficient reason) to NOT allow a player to sign up. Of course, I just choose not to because I have faith eventually they will come around... (hopefully)

I've also had my own share of sending out PM's trying to find players to play their match ASAP or finding them on the tetris client that the tournament is held. Some may find this annoying... but hey, it works and most of the time the players play their games.. so why not right? lol I think if I show them how much I care for the tournament, in turn they might care that 1% more (which is good enough for me)

[Paradox]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]There are a LOT of times where people just decide not to play because they have a lot of "school work"[/quote]

how dare they prioritize their careers over tetris!

the biggest problem here is player base, if you have hardly any players and just a few don't show up its huge.. thats what happens when you have a tourney on just about every platform.