Tetris Battle update

[Alexsweden]

TSS, TSD, and TST are all worth the same points per line, so it seriously doesn't matter. If EZ TSS or TS0 sets up b2b, then those are sensible openers, but all that matters is sustainability and a TST with 1 line left in the game.
Well, you didn't show us the resulting value in points per line. A successful 20~22 combo would be 575~625 points per line for an exceedingly high amount of effort per execution compared to a sustainable t-spin setup like ST.

Well but since ST stacking requires some tetrises to be made it is not as efficient as the infinite TST. Also TSS gives 300/line while TSD and TST give 400.

[Kitaru]

Well but since ST stacking requires some tetrises to be made it is not as efficient as the infinite TST.

If you think you can sustain Infinite TST without destabilizing the other half of the stack, give it a shot. Like I said, what really matters here is maximizing t-spin output.

Also TSS gives 300/line while TSD and TST give 400.

T-Spin scoring formula (excepting minis) = 400 * lines * b2b bonus. This formula reduces to 400 * 1.5 after you divide by lines, leaving you with 600 points per line regardless.

[Alexsweden]

If you think you can sustain Infinite TST without destabilizing the other half of the stack, give it a shot. Like I said, what really matters here is maximizing t-spin output.

I belived that too before I watched Massi4h's video, he made 32(34) TST in b2b. That is 96 lines. As he played 100L sprint he might have been able to continue too, it depends on if his last two TST in where he used 180 rotation were becouse he had no other possibilities or if he did a misstake (aka. Maybe, if he had done the right choice he could had continued further). But anyhow it shows that 96 lines is possible and that is quite some sustainability. However I doubt if it is possible to play for so long as the pieces drop to fast near the end.
But then again a switch to ST would solve that. But then again, that would be very difficult.

T-Spin scoring formula (excepting minis) = 400 * lines * b2b bonus. This formula reduces to 400 * 1.5 after you divide by lines, leaving you with 600 points per line regardless.

But on TB a TSS only gives 300 points.



I have added b2b point for my previous calculations (by multiplying by 1.5) and it shows that TST gives 91200 points which is like 20 combo. While ST gives 75150 points which is equivalent to 16 combo. I dont know how easy it is to pull of a lot of 4w of these lengths but for me ST is clearly the way to go.

[Rosti_LFC]

Yeah, endless TST is clearly possible Kitaru, so long as the gravity is fairly low. It stops getting feasible around 1G though. Maybe a bit later if you build it closer to the middle than massiah does, but then you run into other issues.

[Kitaru]

But on TB a TSS only gives 300 points.

Actually, we are both halfway wrong in ways that are strange and disconcerting. Natural TSS (i.e. set up a TSD slot that clears one line) is worth 500 (!) points, Mini TSS (i.e. set up EZ TSS or the like) is worth 300 points as you mentioned. This makes a b2b natural TSS worth 750 points. 9_9

I checked on TS0 and there is no mini/natrual distinction, as per usual -- straight 100 extra points. Rather than think of them as "undefined points per line omg," it's more accurate to think of them as inserting additional value into lines you have yet to clear; you can't really think of them as free points considering that you're just deferring the game progression to a later piece. Whether that means you're "bumping" a tetris's value to 325 points per line, a TSD's to 650, or so on, you still eventually have to clear those lines unless it's the end of the game.

[XaeL]

Yeah, endless TST is clearly possible Kitaru, so long as the gravity is fairly low. It stops getting feasible around 1G though. Maybe a bit later if you build it closer to the middle than massiah does, but then you run into other issues.

The tetris DS tas completes 190~ lines of TST's, so it is possible.

[Alexsweden]

Actually, we are both halfway wrong in ways that are strange and disconcerting. Natural TSS (i.e. set up a TSD slot that clears one line) is worth 500 (!) points, Mini TSS (i.e. set up EZ TSS or the like) is worth 300 points as you mentioned. This makes a b2b natural TSS worth 750 points. 9_9

Edit: the previous calculation was incorect, used more T's than was available.. otherwise natural TSS together with TST would be optimal
Wut!, thats just weird, so making b2b natural TSS is the most effective way to play. However if u do this u clear only 1 line per bag and end up with building up 1.8 lines per bag that need to be cleared otherwise. But by doing 20 natural TSS and 9 tetrises you will keep the lines even as 20 TST create 1.8 * 20 = 39 extra lines which can be cleared with 39 / 4 = 9 tetrises. This method gives 460 points per line in average and if used properly in the end so that a TST is done in the last line the folwoing score can be calculated
20 TSS + 9 tetrises = 56 lines. 150 / 56 = 2.68. .68 means you can do an additional 38 lines, and by doing 19 TSS, 4 tetrises and a TST you would gain the folowing points instead.
So you can do 20 TSS and 9 TST 2 times and then 19 additional TSS, 4 tetrises and ending it all with and TST.
20 * 750 + 9 * 1200  = 25 800
25 800 * 2 = 51 600
51 600 + 19 * 750 + 4 * 1200 + 1200 = 71 850  Note: This is including bsb already.

Note: they are in beta so they might actually change this.

Rather than think of them as "undefined points per line omg," it's more accurate to think of them as inserting additional value into lines you have yet to clear

Exactly

[mippo]

Is there no leaderboard? Can't find it
Can't even see my own high score...
what score did you get so far, Alex ?

[Alexsweden]

There is no leaderboard as of yet, me and others have asked about this on the official forum on fb, but no answers have come yet.
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Think this is my reccord atm

Edit: 552k is the new one
Edit 2: 635 or something - reccorded it, comming up later
Edit: What about you mippo?

[Alexsweden]

I tried to figure out how you could calculate the real maximum score in an easy way. I added an excel attatchement that shows that if you multiply the values obtained from pretending that yoy play all 150 lines at level 1 by 10 (9.666.. really) then you get a pretty good match for what the value would really be.  

The reason to why 10 is the right number is that I calculated how much points you would get from doing only non combo singels. The final real score would then be 145 000 points. I then compared this to the value gotten from multiplying 100 * 150 - that is the vaule obtained from pretending that you play the whole game at level 1.
145 000 / 15000 = 9.666..
A problem with this is that as soon as you do the same calculation with non singels you have to take into account that sometimes a level that has a "x line goal" the number of lines cleared at that particular level may be up to x+/- 3 as. For example if you do two tetrises at the start of the game you have cleared 8 lines and all these lines are treated with the level 1 multiplier.

So when using this method remember that it is not exact, we can only hope that these variations cancel out in the long run giving pretty precice results anyway.


Humm... "Upload failed. You are not permitted to upload a file with that file extension." tried to upload excel - what should I do?

[XaeL]

hey facebook tetris isnt loading now, wtf

[Rosti_LFC]

The tetris DS tas completes 190~ lines of TST's, so it is possible.

Video?

And if the TAS breaks 20G mechanics then that doesn't make it possible.

[Alexsweden]

Broke my reccord again. Here is a video of it

It seems like I lost around 170k at the mistakes done at evel 13-14. But since I could start up a new ST stack I saved myself and got a great score anyway. Had I played perfectly there maybe I would had 800k.

In my op I stated that the maximum score would be around 726k. However this is without points from hard and softdrops. Also since the points from different levels are not static my approximation of 10* score from level 1 does not seem to suffice. My TSS at the start did not only iniciate a B2B. It also ensured that had I had an perfect ST stack I would have not only had all 15 lines at level 15 to make use of the *15 multiplyer for all 15 lines but with TSD's i would have ended up at 1 line away from goal letting me do a TSD at the end (dont do TST's). I think this pretty much proves that a TSS to ST is the best way to play ST stack on marathon as we know of today!

[Alexsweden]

edit: forgive me for the double post :S

New reccord

This is a normal almost perfect ST stack. I did not do the TSS at the start since it is not something you can do with every opening bag, also it oftentimes makes the rest of your stack harder to control. This could be due to that I don’t put down two T's at the right side stack or something when using this opening. Anyways, it is a pain to play with so I decided to make a try at a normal ST stack.

Some interesting facts:
At around level 13 with 15 lines left at both videos the score only differs with 5k. With the normal St stack slightly in the lead. This is because 1 more line has been cleared at this point and since the game has been played 1:35 minutes faster which gives more harddrop points. In short the TSS at the start does really make the normal ST stack better, and it would show even more at the last level.

Also I tested to play with the infinite TST setup and compared the scores at level 7 with 9 lines left where I lost control of it with my other games. The score difference is only 3k compared with the TSS - ST stack and 8k with the normal one. So while it is better the difference in the end will be small as the TST has to be aborted and normal ST stack has to be used eventually anyway and the differences do not really show up until the end anyway - where both strats will do ST stacking.

Maybe this thread should be moved to strategy and help as I have added so much of this stuff to the OP lately.

[Ravendarksky]

Not sure if this has been missed out here but:

Say I have 1 line to go on #1.
I do a tetris and get points x1
I'm now on #2 with 3 lines cleared.

Better to do a tspinsingle (to keep b2b), clears one line and now i'm on # 2.
The tetris then gives pointsx2 ?

So in my head the perfect game is ONLY using TSTS and at any situation where Lines left is less than 3 do a TSD or a TSS until next level.

To fully optimise your score you would finish by getting to exactly one line left and then do a TST.

Alex there are more points to be had! even if it is a negligible amount. You can soft drop a piece for points and then HOLD it. free points =D.
Note: I've not played this version of tetris yet, just basing this on what's been said in the thread.

I'll be looking into this more soon now that I've broken 1million on TF marathon