Why hasn't Nullpomino netplay expanded?

[Someone2knoe]

Would it not be possible to display the key the user has mapped for that function?  

So if A is Start and user has A mapped to Z, could the screen not say press Z to start ?

I think maybe this is what s2k is saying.

That is one part of what I am saying.

Reasons why A-F should be avoided:

1. A-F buttons are easily confused with Keyboard A-F buttons.
2. It often says things like "Press A to Start" so you have to memorize what keyboard button you set as A-F when starting/practicing/retrying. (Memorizing controls should only be for game controls. Even then there shoul be an easy way to display/change your control settings in game.)
3. You have no idea what A-F does in game without already knowing the rule or testing it out.
4. When you change rules A-F can change functionality, the only way to tell how it changes is to test it out or know the rule already.
5. If you want your controls to stay the same for every rule (A is clockwise, B is counterclockwise etc.), you have to go back to your controls and change it each time you change rules.

Using the control settings I suggested:

1. If it says "Press A to Start" you literally just press A on your keyboard.
2. You already know what button is clockwise/counterclockwise etc before entering the game.
3. When you change rules you don't have to guess what your controls changed to.
4. If you want to change your controls for a certain rule/ game you can simply use a preset.

Note that a lot of this is from the perspective of someone new to playing nullpo, which an important perspective to account for if you want more players.

[meow]

The average tetris player is very computer illiterate. Simple things like unzipping files, reading readme.txt, etc can't be expected of them. We really have to dumb down the game to an extreme to increase the userbase.

I think everything should be done with the mouse. It is simple, intuitive, nothing is hidden. It might be slower and might suck for those who use a controller to navigate. Do we even have these users?

Appearance is a major factor in why people don't play netplay. Even I don't like to idle on the server because the window is ugly. Other games like tetrinet2 have people who want to idle there because it looks nice. Also, no one wants to play in full screen where they can't see the lobby and chat, and no one wants to play in a tiny 640x480 window either.

The latest version of nullpomino has increased the user base. I think this is due to the rating system, which is nice for competitive players. Another level system based on number of games played could motivate everyone to play more. If we could set some nice avatars or nice titles for higher ranks, I think this could work.

[Wojtek]

I don't agree. Sure there are areas where nullpomino can be improved. But at this point i don't believe any changes in program will increase number of users. Sometimes i feel i'm only one who like this game.

wtf, whats next? maybe we should replace multiplayer with fake multiplayer (ala tf), avarage tetris player is so stupid he wont see any diffrence, and won't be pissed off because nobody is online.

[Kitaru]

Read what I said about presets. I italicized it for you.

And it shouldn't change for rules, clockwise would be clockwise in any rule. If you wanted clockwise to be different when you use another rule, change your preset.

Yes, in fact, it should change for the rule/tuning options, and you should never have to change your controls to accommodate this. If you're picking the rule in order to simulate some game's behaviors, you should probably be familiar with... how that game behaves.

The confirm button shouldn't move, nor should one have to change blocks of keys in addition to rules in order to emulate desired settings -- with presets or otherwise.

This discussion isn't supposed to be about game keys are being handled; we're not changing that right now.  This discussion should instead be about how the optional separation of navigation from game keys should be handled.

I understand where you're coming from by suggesting displaying concrete key labels rather than generic ones, but I have a lot of qualms with simply replacing the generics.  Concrete key labels may augment an eventual UI solution, but there are some problems with putting "Z: Start" as well.

[Someone2knoe]

[!--quoteo--][div class=\\\'quotetop\\\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\\\'quotemain\\\'][!--quotec--]you should probably be familiar with... how that game behaves.[/quote]
Requiring prior knowledge seems a bit unfriendly to new players in my opinion. There is no easy way to tell exactly what each rule does.

I still disagree with you in some ways. But I think we at least agree that the controls should be altered in some way. You have to at least agree that the A-F thing is confusing for people. That needs to be resolved in some way.

[Kitaru]

Requiring prior knowledge seems a bit unfriendly to new players in my opinion. There is no easy way to tell exactly what each rule does.

It follows that if you want to simulate Sega Tetris, you know how Sega Tetris works, and you then go to select the rule that simulates Sega Tetris.

I still disagree with you in some ways. But I think we at least agree that the controls should be altered in some way. You have to at least agree that the A-F thing is confusing for people. That needs to be resolved in some way.

Yeah. I've offered some possible approaches, but we're just going to have to work on it and see what works.

[Someone2knoe]

I don't agree. Sure there are areas where nullpomino can be improved. But at this point i don't believe any changes in program will increase number of users. Sometimes i feel i'm only one who like this game.

wtf, whats next? maybe we should replace multiplayer with fake multiplayer (ala tf), avarage tetris player is so stupid he wont see any diffrence, and won't be pissed off because nobody is online.

There is no need to be so negative. You are doing a great job with Nullpomino. It is very satisfying for the hardcore players. The large number of players can only come from casual players. But it is still possible to have a game that everyone enjoys, regardless of how much they care about tetris.

What makes TF popular:

1. Advertisement: Many sites link to it, they do what they can to get their game out there (Facebook etc)
2. Website Name : If someone wants to play tetris they will likely type tetris.com , Also it is the first thing that pops up when you search tetris in a search engine.
3. Browser Based : Its an easier and faster way to access a game when it is browser based and you don't have to download anything.
4. Interface : It is extremely simple on TF to know where you are going. And the interface isn't too bad looking either, its organized and colorful
5. Simplicity : Everything is made simplistic when it comes to the settings and choosing a game mode. Everything has a description that tells you exactly what the goal is. Settings that are more complex are under an advanced tab.
6. Achievements: People will play longer and stay on longer if they working toward a goal, even if the goal wins them nothing. Just think about what people talk about all the time on TF. Missions, Rank, etc.
7. Shop: Similar to achievements, it takes time to unlock things. While I think they go a bit overboard, subtle unlocks are okay. Its fine to unlock backgrounds, music, sound effects, and mino skins. People work toward these things. People take pride in how much currency they save up.
8. Profiles/Accounts/Avatars: When playing online games, people like to develop an image for themselves. They do this through their username/ avatar and the creation of their profile. The profile also serves a purpose by bragging all the achievements.
9. Friends: You can make friends on TF, you can know when they are on and you can send them messages. People will be encouraged to play when they see their friend on.
10. Incentives: When you log in consecutively you get to play the slots. By signing up you get free tokens. By winning games you get more currency. People like this stuff.

These are just some ways that give it some popularity. You could leave some out that you don't like and still gain some popularity with Nullpomino.

[Wojtek]

To clear confusion, I don't really contribute much to Nullpomino.

if tf is better tetris game than nullpomino in any aspect then i probably woke up in alternate reality today. sure nullpomino and tf are very diffrent, but this is why is probably why i like nullpomino and dislike tf.

[Someone2knoe]

Ah well, the point is there can be changes made with nullpo that would increase popularity.

The one thing TF is good at is making the game presentable. They really know how to hook people. The thing they are missing is good quality game play.

Nullpomino is at the other end of the spectrum, it has excellent quality game play. But it lacks the people-friendly things.

[Wojtek]

pretty much you saying that nowadays game to be succesful need to focus on anything but game itself. it reminds me this:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/if-mario-was-made-in-2010

[coolmaninsano]

pretty much you saying that nowadays game to be succesful need to focus on anything but game itself. it reminds me this:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/if-mario-was-made-in-2010

Haha.

[Someone2knoe]

All the things I mentioned are hooks. They tell people about the game and addict them. Any game would be unsuccessful without hooks. You can't run on gameplay alone. And as many people notice with TF, quality is also important. Don't think that its one or the other, you need both.

[meow]

Nullpomino has great gameplay already. What it needs is a great interface. Look at Stepmania, now that game is extremely well made. Every serious ddr player has it and there are lots of casuals that play it as well. I believe nullpomino has this potential, but the interface, its complexity and the disorganized settings hold it back.

[XaeL]

openITG is just as good as stepmania.
all the pros get stepmania and openITG for their dedicabs.

i run stepmania on mine :/

i think the real problem is we need a critical mass

[Spirale]

I don't think Nullpomino can expect to compete with TF in tems of casual players. In fact, i dont think we should hope for that to happen, since, in that case Tetris Company would rapidly send cease and desist letters and take legal action to erase Nullpomino from the face of the earth
A reasonable goal would be to attract all the "hardcore" tetris players( for example the whole harddrop population) instead of having them play TF/TOJ or blockbox, like Tetrinet or Cultris used to do. The difference would be that the Tetrinet source code was in the hands of one single person and closed source, while Nullpomino is in the hands of multiple people and can still be expanded in case the main developer(Nullnoname) gets tired of Nullpomino.
We can evaluate (after another topic about the "value" of harddrop) that this population is around 300 people, which is, in my opinion, enough to keep the game community alive.
That being said, it is still legitimate to want to make it as user friendly and as beautiful as possible, for the sole reason that it would be intellectually satisfying.