Expert HD Mode (Tetris Friends)

[crzy242]

Give me a mode with no lag and messier garbage and I'm happy.

i agree with the lag.
the only thing that they have to fix with the garbage is change on each attack and not on each add. you see the most exciting gameplay on toj and nullpo with the change garbage on each attack garbage system, so i dont think the garbage should get any messier than that

[Impact009]

I did some testing, and E+ definitely still has the auto-handicap enabled.  It was 2 vs 1 against somebody two levels lower than me and somebody else three levels lower than me.  For the entire duration of the second match, I only had one item (the crappy cloud), while they twisted my matrix three times and used a cloud twice on me, and used the gravity power-up on me once.  On the next game, I was hit with 3 items within the first 10 seconds or so, with mine nowhere to be found.

I don't play with items when I'm not messing around, but really, if Expert Plus still has auto-handicaps for items, then what makes everybody think that it doesn't still auto-handicap everything else like targetting and garbage?  I would LOVE for TF to completely remove auto-handicapping in Expert HD mode.

[BieberCleaver]

It would be helpful if TF actually told us the mechanics of the current system so we know what we're up against.  It's not all that fun playing a game where you don't know if handicapping is on or not, how you are being handicapped, etc.

From my experience, nothing > E > E+ in terms of amounts of handicapping, but yes it does seem to be existent in all of them.

[Noogy]

would be more helpful if :


1. you get a larger sample size than 1 for your silly item games
(on a side note, THIS is why items in brawl are banned, because its luck based, and its ok if you don't understand why im saying this cause it's not directed at you)
2. you sit in an expert+ room with items off and watch people's garbage over a larger sample size

really now, you just got teamed up on by 2 ppl using items on you and this leads to the conclusion that the garbage distribution is unfair

another side note: i just know that in a non E room 1v1, one player would get messy garbage while the other wouldn't, and that in E+ rooms both players have equally messy garbage. plus ive seen good players win consistently in 6p rooms, so i don't believe that handicapping exists for E+

[mippo]

I never play with items, so I don't know how it works exactly...

But I always figured the faster you play the more items you should get,
since you are going through more pieces so are getting to the blocks
with the items in them quicker (say for example you get a block with an item in it every 50 blocks)
It doesn't seem to work like this though.

[zaphod77]

I can think of 5 posibilities of how it might work.

1) items every x pieces. Playing fast would get more items.
2) items every x piece,s but X increases as you win.
3) Items every X seconds. PLaying fast wouldnt' help
4) Items every X seconds, but X is adjusted by handicap.
5) total random. PLaying fast will tend to help here in the long run.

[Impact009]

would be more helpful if :
1. you get a larger sample size than 1 for your silly item games
(on a side note, THIS is why items in brawl are banned, because its luck based, and its ok if you don't understand why im saying this cause it's not directed at you)
2. you sit in an expert+ room with items off and watch people's garbage over a larger sample size

really now, you just got teamed up on by 2 ppl using items on you and this leads to the conclusion that the garbage distribution is unfair

another side note: i just know that in a non E room 1v1, one player would get messy garbage while the other wouldn't, and that in E+ rooms both players have equally messy garbage. plus ive seen good players win consistently in 6p rooms, so i don't believe that handicapping exists for E+

Sample size of 1?  I didn't say I only played one game, you should read again.  It was about 6 or 7, but the fact still remains that my item frequency was 1/3 of theirs individually.  I don't really care about items, but what I'm pointing out is that if the hidden handicap system affects items, then why would it not handicap the other features too?  My only concern is that a slight handicap might still exist for garbage and targetting.  If I'm right and they remove it completely in Expert HD mode, then yay.  If I'm wrong, then...oh wait, nothing will happen.

As for Smash, I don't think you fully understand why items are banned in tourney play.  The reason why we voted against items in the SBR wasn't purely because of the luck factor.  It was because there was no way to turn off containers that had a chance of exploding.  There's nothing like pillaring or SHFFL fairing and then having an exploding capsule spawn in front of your attack mid-combo.  Had there been a way to turn off those containers, then we would be playing with items, though selectively.

When Brawl was about to be released, Mic made an official statement about it again.  The standard had been in place for over six years, and by then, most of the community grew up not using items.  Final Smashes were too imbalanced, so the debate for that was rather quick.

[TT_Stewart]

well i was thinking idea..... what about new items from tetris party deluxe?

[Noogy]

Sample size of 1?  I didn't say I only played one game, you should read again.  It was about 6 or 7, but the fact still remains that my item frequency was 1/3 of theirs individually.  I don't really care about items, but what I'm pointing out is that if the hidden handicap system affects items, then why would it not handicap the other features too?  My only concern is that a slight handicap might still exist for garbage and targetting.  If I'm right and they remove it completely in Expert HD mode, then yay.  If I'm wrong, then...oh wait, nothing will happen.

As for Smash, I don't think you fully understand why items are banned in tourney play.  The reason why we voted against items in the SBR wasn't purely because of the luck factor.  It was because there was no way to turn off containers that had a chance of exploding.  There's nothing like pillaring or SHFFL fairing and then having an exploding capsule spawn in front of your attack mid-combo.  Had there been a way to turn off those containers, then we would be playing with items, though selectively.

When Brawl was about to be released, Mic made an official statement about it again.  The standard had been in place for over six years, and by then, most of the community grew up not using items.  Final Smashes were too imbalanced, so the debate for that was rather quick.

reread it, did not see 6 or 7, which STILL would have been a small amount. seriously how long have you been playing TF? you're either a regular in the item rooms or you aren't. and if you were you would know already and if you aren't then you're not playing nearly as enough as you should be to make such assertions. do you even have a problem with the garbage system itself?

okay, so smash balls are bad because their imbalanced. which is worse? imbalance or luck? if people hate TF's luck items, then how could you not hate imbalanced final smashes?

i could care less about the history lesson, i just know that they make the game unbalanced, which is the point i was trying to make.

[Impact009]

reread it, did not see 6 or 7, which STILL would have been a small amount. seriously how long have you been playing TF? you're either a regular in the item rooms or you aren't. and if you were you would know already and if you aren't then you're not playing nearly as enough as you should be to make such assertions. do you even have a problem with the garbage system itself?

okay, so smash balls are bad because their imbalanced. which is worse? imbalance or luck? if people hate TF's luck items, then how could you not hate imbalanced final smashes?

i could care less about the history lesson, i just know that they make the game unbalanced, which is the point i was trying to make.

I was pointing out that you made the assumption that I only played 1 match, but I told you to re-read, because I specifically said that I didn't play 1 match, and then I added that it was about 6 or 7.  I'm not a regular in item rooms, because I hate how items make things imbalance, but I do play with my friends who prefer them.  Yeah, that is a small sample size, but that handicapping was present in all of my games except twice.  If you really want to, then I'll use a bigger sample size, record the data, and draft up a one-sample T-Test for you.

Really, I don't care about the items that much.  I would like for it to be balanced in the event that my friends want to play with items and have that choice.  Again, my main concern is that since auto-handicaps probably exist for items from what I've seen, then I'm concerned about even the slightest effect on garbage and targetting.  If I'm wrong, then so what?  I noticed something, had a concern, and am requesting the change in the thread.

Luck and balance are related, but they're also two completely different things.  Way to go on trying to reference another game, being wrong about it, and then changing your point.  If all Final Smashes were the same, then there would have been a decent chance that they would have been present in tourney play, even with the luck factor.

The "history lesson" was because you brought up a different game and were completely wrong about it.

[Noogy]

okay so... 6 or 7, and this "auto handicap" happened on all except two.... jesus christ.

you can't say things like this and not worry about being wrong. you are trying to state a theory, and i am telling you how ridiculous it is and to prove it.

you really can't make wild accusations based on so little evidence and not expect me to ridicule you for it.
so if some guy walks in a room with a 4 wider and gets hit by the majority of a combo 4 times out of 6 games, are they allowed to cry?

back to ssb items -  are you saying the banning of items had NOTHING to do with luck at all? items that have a chance of exploding. is that not luck? if you're so confused of me switching over between smashballs being unlucky to smashballs being imbalanced, it's because you're freakin missing the point.

(on a side note, THIS is why items in brawl are banned, because its luck based, and its ok if you don't understand why im saying this cause it's not directed at you)

get the picture?
1. luck = need large sample size
2. 6 games = not a large sample size
3. exploding items = luck
4. TF items = luck


here's your homework assignment:
1. conduct that 1 sample t test over 100 games
2. define luck
3. don't bother replying anymore

[bach_of_tetris]

jerrrry, jerrrry, jerrrry

[NoManual]

What about the Tetris DS way of clearing lines, (no combo bonus, no T-spin bonus, etc, just simple 1v1 skills) and the way the garbage is sent back and forth, like in Facebook Tetris? `Cus I think its a bit unfair to suddenly get a long one to put down in a 4, it is a bit more random that way I think..
Drop should be as the player prefer, or maybe like "lvl 1" speed, so ppl can hard drop with ghost. This is what I think would be the perfect Tetris for me tho.. ;D

[Kitaru]

back to ssb items - are you saying the banning of items had NOTHING to do with luck at all? items that have a chance of exploding. is that not luck?

I know his post was written in a way that didn't precisely convey what he was trying to say, but I feel like you're just being a pain about this now. The game affords a certain degree of control over certain elements of the randomness (item switch) but not others (exploding containers). What he was saying is that it isn't the uncertainty of which item is being picked from the pool that is a problem so much as the fact that exploding containers cannot be removed from that pool. He holds the position that -- were it possible to disable exploding containers -- that the remaining factors of luck would not seen as a barrier to keeping items enabled.

3. don't bother replying anymore

You're one to talk. I've been seeing a lot of inflammatory, self-righteous posts coming from you. You might want to tone it down a bit.

Moving right along...

What about the Tetris DS way of clearing lines, (no combo bonus, no T-spin bonus, etc, just simple 1v1 skills) and the way the garbage is sent back and forth, like in Facebook Tetris? `Cus I think its a bit unfair to suddenly get a long one to put down in a 4, it is a bit more random that way I think..

Tetris DS may not have Combo garbage, but it does have t-spins and back-to-back. I'm not sure what you're talking about with your second statement though. What I can say is that randomness in piece generation isn't a problem as a result of the [wiki]Bag[/wiki] randomizer used in most official games. It forces a normal distribution of pieces, so "getting lucky" on a deal isn't really a concern for multiplayer. Beyond that, I'm pretty sure that Tetris Friends gives players identical sequences these days.

[chopin]

Relax, fellas