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> About Massi4's infinite B2B TST setup
Supvanillaface
post Feb 26 2014, 04:36 PM
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For several months now I've been playing Tetris by mindlessly clearing 4 lines simultaneously, unfortunately that particular playstyle tends to get quite boring occasionally. So I decided to practise t-spins as well to mix it up a bit. Evidently i'm horrible at it as I've just started. The standard setup appears to be one were the primrary objective is to score double t-spins. However today I came across a setup allegedly invented by the player Massi4. To me it appears to be way better than any other setup. So why isn't it just as popular? I mean it's not harder to properly play that setup by any means either. Is there something really bad about it that I fail to notice perhaps?
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eevor
post Feb 26 2014, 05:21 PM
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It's not that easy to stack it, especially quickly enough against good opponents as you need to stack really high. Also t-spin triples send a lot of clean garbage.

It's an awesome setup, but most people in most games are better of with TKI or similar openings.
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perfectclear
post Feb 26 2014, 06:06 PM
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im pretty sure its decidedly impossible to make it infinite without flipping sides too, so that might be why you dont see it as often in Ultra games. but in PvP games it just doesnt receive garbage that well.
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Oharra
post Feb 26 2014, 06:11 PM
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I have to disagree, if it wouldn't be harder to use than an infinite double Tspin setup, then a lot more people would use it Smile.png. What you can do that is easier to build, and to open with, is building some tspin triples (not infinite) but it's easy to build and if you're fast, it can be effective, but if you're not fast enough, you get KO'd quickly. I advise to practice just St stacking if you want an effective infinite tspin setup. There are also a lot of videos and tutorials etc to find about it, that helps your progress.
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Supvanillaface
post Feb 26 2014, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE(eevor @ Feb 26 2014, 05:21 PM) *

It's not that easy to stack it, especially quickly enough against good opponents as you need to stack really high. Also t-spin triples send a lot of clean garbage.

It's an awesome setup, but most people in most games are better of with TKI or similar openings.


Yeah you've got a good point there. All thought I was mainly planning on using it in ultra by myself. Oh and what is clean garbage? Is it left over pieces that the t-spins aren't able to clear?

QUOTE(Oharra @ Feb 26 2014, 06:11 PM) *

I have to disagree, if it wouldn't be harder to use than an infinite double Tspin setup, then a lot more people would use it Smile.png. What you can do that is easier to build, and to open with, is building some tspin triples (not infinite) but it's easy to build and if you're fast, it can be effective, but if you're not fast enough, you get KO'd quickly. I advise to practice just St stacking if you want an effective infinite tspin setup. There are also a lot of videos and tutorials etc to find about it, that helps your progress.


Yeah maybe it is harder, what do I know? I did find some great double t-spin guides thought. Guess I'll try out both.

QUOTE(perfectclear @ Feb 26 2014, 06:06 PM) *

im pretty sure its decidedly impossible to make it infinite without flipping sides too, so that might be why you dont see it as often in Ultra games. but in PvP games it just doesnt receive garbage that well.


What do you mean by flipping sides? Like doing t-spins on both sides or what? I'm a bit noob when it comes to tetris based terms.
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UJS3
post Feb 26 2014, 09:44 PM
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QUOTE(Supvanillaface @ Feb 26 2014, 10:07 PM) *

Oh and what is clean garbage? Is it left over pieces that the t-spins aren't able to clear?
What do you mean by flipping sides? Like doing t-spins on both sides or what? I'm a bit noob when it comes to tetris based terms.

In many multiplayer games, players send garbage lines (a full row with one mino missing) to each other. Clean garbage has the garbage hole in the same column and is easy to clear. Attacks like tetris and t-spin double send clean garbage, t-spin triple and perfect clear even more so. Combos send messy garbage (the garbage hole changes column a lot). It doesn't apply to Ultra.
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morningpee
post Feb 26 2014, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE(Supvanillaface @ Feb 26 2014, 09:07 PM) *

QUOTE(perfectclear @ Feb 26 2014, 06:06 PM) *

im pretty sure its decidedly impossible to make it infinite without flipping sides too, so that might be why you dont see it as often in Ultra games. but in PvP games it just doesnt receive garbage that well.

What do you mean by flipping sides? Like doing t-spins on both sides or what? I'm a bit noob when it comes to tetris based terms.

From the wiki: Some examples of "flipping sides". This technique precedes Infinite TST by a few years.

The difficulty in pulling off either technique is a stacking issue, nothing more. As show here (Infinite TST) and here (B2B TST, switching sides), both techniques are mathematically sustainable. According to the Tetris Friends Ultra leaderboard, some players have been successful at achieving exceptionally high scores using Infinite TST.

Previous thread on Infinite TST
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Supvanillaface
post Feb 26 2014, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE(UJS3 @ Feb 26 2014, 09:44 PM) *

In many multiplayer games, players send garbage lines (a full row with one mino missing) to each other. Clean garbage has the garbage hole in the same column and is easy to clear. Attacks like tetris and t-spin double send clean garbage, t-spin triple and perfect clear even more so. Combos send messy garbage (the garbage hole changes column a lot). It doesn't apply to Ultra.


Allrighty, I've seen those in the arena mode on tetrisfriends. Thanks for clarifying!


QUOTE(morningpee @ Feb 26 2014, 10:17 PM) *

What do you mean by flipping sides? Like doing t-spins on both sides or what? I'm a bit noob when it comes to tetris based terms.

From the wiki: Some examples of "flipping sides". This technique precedes Infinite TST by a few years.

The difficulty in pulling off either technique is a stacking issue, nothing more. As show here (Infinite TST) and here (B2B TST, switching sides), both techniques are mathematically sustainable. According to the Tetris Friends Ultra leaderboard, some players have been successful at achieving exceptionally high scores using Infinite TST.

Previous thread on Infinite TST


Ok that seems waaay too complicated. Thanks for the info thought, I appreciate it.
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Supvanillaface
post Feb 26 2014, 11:57 PM
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Just one more thing. I thought b2b t-spins could only be done if you did two in a row becuase I think you only get b2b tetris's when you drop two consecutive I pieces. How come you only need one t-spin to get a b2b?
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unpronuncyashun2
post Feb 27 2014, 04:27 AM
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QUOTE(Supvanillaface @ Feb 26 2014, 05:57 PM) *

Just one more thing. I thought b2b t-spins could only be done if you did two in a row becuase I think you only get b2b tetris's when you drop two consecutive I pieces. How come you only need one t-spin to get a b2b?


The first t-spin counts as a normal t-spin (single, double, or triple) and the second one counts as a B2B.
B2B's don't have to be only between t-spins or tetris' though, for example t-spin into B2B tetris is a popular tactic in multiplayer as it sends 4+5=9 damage.
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Supvanillaface
post Feb 27 2014, 09:41 AM
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QUOTE(unpronuncyashun2 @ Feb 27 2014, 04:27 AM) *

The first t-spin counts as a normal t-spin (single, double, or triple) and the second one counts as a B2B.
B2B's don't have to be only between t-spins or tetris' though, for example t-spin into B2B tetris is a popular tactic in multiplayer as it sends 4+5=9 damage.


Check out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ3hC4nL7jw. That players gets b2b tspin triples without using two in a row. Same happened to me. Is it a glitch?
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Integration
post Feb 27 2014, 10:28 AM
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^^ The first T-Spin Triple had no back to back bonus.

You get back to back bonus for making a Tetris or T-Spin lineclear and your last lineclear was either a Tetris or a T-Spin. You needn't' make a T-Spin - Tetris combo. You can stack up before you make the next Tetris or T-Spin. It's just important that you don't make a normal Single, Double or Triple lineclear in the meantime.
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Supvanillaface
post Feb 27 2014, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE(Integration @ Feb 27 2014, 10:28 AM) *

^^ The first T-Spin Triple had no back to back bonus.

You get back to back bonus for making a Tetris or T-Spin lineclear and your last lineclear was either a Tetris or a T-Spin. You needn't' make a T-Spin - Tetris combo. You can stack up before you make the next Tetris or T-Spin. It's just important that you don't make a normal Single, Double or Triple lineclear in the meantime.


Oh ok I get it now. Thanks a lot!
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