QUOTE(mrapplybottom @ Jan 24 2010, 03:59 AM)

see thats my main problem. maybe i am too slow but the thing is, i do decent against t-spinners and pure tetris players. but against chainers, i just set 2 t-spin triples up and wait for them to build high enough, then i attack. if i do 2 t-spin triples back to back, thats 7 lines. against their high chains, that means nothing, especially since their chain clears more than 7 lines. the way i perform the t-spin triples changes, but the set up is fairly common. it is the 8 line method, 6 for the actual lines cleared and 2 for the overlay to spin them in. i don't normally use setups like that other than when the other guy has a clear/low screen, but if i see a serial chain player, i use it. but like i said before, it really only works the one time.
A back to back tspin triple should send 13 lines total actually: 6 + 7. If you're going to be using it to attack rather than counter incoming garbage, it's best to time it to around the same time or a little bit before the opponent begins clearing their combo. As they are still in their early combos, they won't be able to counter much of the 13 lines. If your opponent is able to pull off combos quickly however, you'll want to go for a less risky strategy or use your TST's to counter garbage rather than send. In the case of countering you should wait a little bit so that all of your TST garbage is used for countering rather than countering only a portion and sending out 2 lines that could potentially save your life. Wait until you have atleast 6 lines of garbage incoming from their combo chain before you perform the first TST, then counter another 7 when you can. If done correctly this should negate a little bit more than combo 7 (or combo 6 in test room), which sends 12 lines total. After this clear garbage as it's coming in, and in order to top you out they would need to reach combo 12 (or 11 in test room) in order to top you out, even more than that depending on how much you are clearing/sending back after your first 2 TSTs.
QUOTE(mrapplybottom @ Jan 24 2010, 03:59 AM)

i have tried toj and like it very much but just preferred TF because there are more english speakers, and also i don't quite get what all those f1-f8 emotes really mean, i just use them based on how they look and i think i'm using them wrong

maybe i'll give that another shot. i know toj has garbage blocking but does garbage from chains come all at once when they finish their chain or do they come as soon as they clear the lines? because if its the latter, then i don't think there will be much of a difference for me.
Yeah I think most of the players here prefer TOJ's garbage blocking over TF. Some members are working on an English patch for TOJ so this might encourage more English speakers, you can stay updated on that project or volunteer to help here:
http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showt...iew=getlastpostAs for the emotes, they're pretty much like how they look.
F1 - Hi
F2 - Cry
F3 - Scared? Not sure
F4 - Confused
F5 - Good Job (or "I'm Ready")
F6 - Celebrate
F7 - Cheer
F8 - Goodbye
The garbage system difference is this:
In TF, incoming garbage is added to your field once you drop a piece.
In TOJ, incoming garbage is added to your field once you drop a piece that doesn't clear a line.
QUOTE(mrapplybottom @ Jan 24 2010, 03:59 AM)

blink, i have tried using tki's set up for t-spin doubles with a slight twist of my own. i can get 4 back to back t-spin doubles fairly quickly but it only works if the initial pieces come out the right way. that is one thing that i have found that works well but the problem is the correct pieces don't come frequently enough to use. i will try different back to back t-spin doubles though next time and see how that works. but ive seen your gameplay videos. you are insanely fast, it might not work as well for me

i have a video of a player named sonic (i think he comes on this forum) doing a middle gap combo. its in a reallllllllly long video i took but ill see if i can edit and post just that game because that was something that i could not find a counter to.
i have tried combos into tetrises, but not t-spins doubles/triples yet. other than after a tetris, i can't really think of a good set up that allows for that, but i'll definitely try and find a set up and give that a go.
This might be just me, but I'd say to avoid memorized setups altogether and play with improvised starts. I've noticed that the very top players rarely start with memorized setups and just go with the flow. This is better practice and allows you to learn dealing with any type of initial piece sequences that come your way without having to worry about correct pieces. It's pretty easy for an improvised player to counter someone doing a memorized setup because we already know what's coming as you're starting to build it and have more flexibility to change what we're going to do in response.
Yes, player sonic is from this forum,
http://www.harddrop.com/sonic . I'm also having trouble finding a counter for the middle gap combo, but if nothing ever comes up we always have the option of doing the same thing as they are. As of right now it seems like the best counter for a 4 middle gap combo start is to do your own 4 middle gap combo start. Let's keep experimenting things and hopefully find other methods that are successful against it.