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Posted by: oh7even Dec 26 2011, 12:39 PM

I've read the wiki on keeping stacking flat and even. Didn't work.

I'm getting better, slowly, and I've finally gotten my sprints under 60 seconds for both nullpo and TF. I think most of that is because of my intermediate finesse/finger speed.

My stacking is completely horrible.

My sprints:

http://youtu.be/CySx6oVPWLM - Nullpo 54.40

http://youtu.be/5qUj8xhwapU - TF 53.88

My apologies for the quality, but I'm sure you can see the hideous stacking.

From these two videos, I think the J piece is my nemesis and I think I have bad patterns

Haalllp

Posted by: Rosti_LFC Dec 26 2011, 01:45 PM

One suggestion on the Nullpo video:

At 22 seconds (game time) you place the I piece in a way that creates two outcrops that can only ideally be fixed with an L piece (the one into the tetris hole would take an S perfectly fine, but it'd break any back-to-back tetris combo). In general needing the same piece for more than one part of the stack is bad and should really be avoided unless your next piece or two contains the piece you need. You should have just placed the I piece vertically against the left hand wall.
That said, the way you actually got yourself out of the situation with the J placement was really good.


Really though, overall your stacking looks fine. On the Nullpo video you have quite a few non-Tetris clears but for sprint that's really not a huge deal. With 0 line-clear delay there's no difference between four singles and a Tetris in terms of time, and I'd expect someone playing as fast as they possibly can to F*** up a fair bit in terms of keeping their stack clean.

Do you play Nullpomino all that much compared to Tetris Friends? Have you tried tuning any of the DAS or other control settings? I'm somewhat curious to why your TF time is faster, because it should be the other way around.

Posted by: caffeine Dec 26 2011, 02:17 PM

http://www.ryanheise.com/tetris/tetris_stacking.html

Posted by: oh7even Dec 26 2011, 02:20 PM

I've seen this, but while I'm playing it's like I forget it.



I play TF more. I know how to change the das on nullpo but I don't know what the numbers mean. Mine is at 8 right now. I play at 3/5 on TF

Posted by: Kitaru Dec 26 2011, 02:45 PM

DAS settings in Nullpomino allow you to directly set how long you hold the key before the move speed kicks in. So, lower is more sensitive.

(Your settings mean autorepeat starts after you hold the key for 0.15s (DAS 8 in Nullpomino means 9 frames / 60 frames per second = 0.15 second. DAS 5 means 6 frames / 60 frames per second = 0.1 second, and so on.)

3/5 in TF is actually a longer delay than DAS 8 in Nullpomino... I think it was somewhere in the .17~.2 second range, but someone (Wojtek?) will have to refresh my memory here.

Posted by: Barneey Dec 26 2011, 02:57 PM

I can't offer you advice on your stacking, but I can tell you that your stacking will get better if you just play enough. Your brain will get used to it and subconsciously differentiate between a good tetromino placement and a bad one relevant to your current stacking.

Posted by: Paradox Dec 26 2011, 04:53 PM

play slow and think carefully about each decision, take into account at least your next 2-3 pieces. Its not really about stacking flat its about stacking so there is always a place to put something.

But honestly this doesn't even really apply to you I see nothing wrong with your stacking. In your nullpo one it seemed like you were pushing speed a bit and made careless drops, but you cleaned it up exactly how you should with skimming and such. Not really any problem just keep playing.

Posted by: DAS44 Dec 26 2011, 06:23 PM

Might be worth your while to try some high gravity ARS (I used Texmaster Sudden Ti, but tweaked nullpomino would serve just as well). It forces you to stack flat, if you don't you're digging your own grave. At first you'll suck (I blew something awful for the longest time), but it'll come naturally after a while.

I hit the first torikan just as my interest in tetris began waning...

Anyways... that might help

Posted by: myndzi Dec 26 2011, 09:17 PM

This.

You do seem to make things hard on yourself sometimes, ex. 0:10 (nullpomino video) where you did this:



instead of, say:



or even



Also, play around with your tuning settings like Kitaru mentioned. If you want to get fast it's probably worth learning instant DAS.

The biggest dilemma with Tetris is that it's always pushing you for time, so you are tempted to make hasty decisions. But when you make hasty decisions you don't learn from making good placements as much. 40lines and versus exaggerate this effect more than some other modes. If you can hold yourself to a speed at which you can learn, you will find yourself stacking nicer the more you practice. You'll make better decisions and recognize similar situations in the future so that those decisions come more naturally.

You could always come play KoS, too

Posted by: Rosti_LFC Dec 26 2011, 10:59 PM

As someone who has played an absolutely sh**load of TGM, I disagree with this, or at least the way you suggest.

Playing Ti modes doesn't help a great deal. You still have hold, three previews, and the things that kill you in 20G ARS aren't the things that will kill you in 0G SRS. It will teach you things, but not things that are necessarily transferable. Sure, it teaches you to stack flat, but that's not always the best way of stacking for 0G SRS.

On the other hand, I would recommend playing TAP - either Death or Master, because you have one preview and no hold. While this is actually further from typical Nullpo 40L, it teaches you proper stacking to a far greater extent because you don't have assistance if you make poor decisions.

Really though, you could achieve the same effect playing Nullpo with SRS and just remove hold and use fewer previews, and it won't require you to need to get to grips with how ARS rotation and 20G works, but will still put you in a situation where you need to rely more on proper stacking than the tools given to help you stack. Playing without hold, ghost piece or previews is the equivalent of weight training for Tetris, and when you add them back in you should find you improve quite a bit.

tl;dr - if all you care about is SRS 40L, then ignore TGM and just try playing with fewer previews and no hold.

Posted by: oh7even Dec 26 2011, 11:38 PM

Ok, so slowing down will help me not get lost in my own stacking?

And what's KoS?




I want to become a better all around tetris player. I want to start heavy t-spinning/combos/improving downstacking. I just want to make sure I'm at an ok enough speed to not get mollywhopped while trying a setup or something.

Posted by: myndzi Dec 26 2011, 11:41 PM

Balance in all things. Speed has its place too, but when you're playing for speed you're not usually learning how to stack better very fast. Since you were asking for stacking help, that's what I focused on.

KoS = King of Stackers, turn based Tetris. No speed - all stacking, but mostly all-spins too, and standard Tetris learning curve applies... I've found it great for getting more familiar with stack shapes and twists, but I haven't worked on speed or live VS in a long time.

Posted by: DAS44 Dec 26 2011, 11:42 PM

Fair enough, you've definitely got me there.

Posted by: oh7even Dec 26 2011, 11:46 PM

Why?

Posted by: myndzi Dec 26 2011, 11:47 PM

So that you learn finesse. Wouldn't you like to be able to play pieces without caring what you're looking at?

Posted by: oh7even Dec 26 2011, 11:47 PM

I think I made an account there, but completely forgot about it. Do you have the link?

Posted by: myndzi Dec 26 2011, 11:53 PM

kingofstackers.com

Posted by: Rosti_LFC Dec 27 2011, 12:10 AM

Speed and stacking ability are totally separate things - if anything they're conflicting interests, as focusing on speed will give you less time to think about optimal stacking placements and you're more likely to make misdrops, so your stacking tends to go all over the place once you start trying to play fast. That's not to say that practising one won't help the other, because that tends to be the case.

If you want to get faster, then work on finesse (using as few inputs per placement as possible) and trying to just get the inputs in as fast as possible. Push yourself as hard as you can to play fast and don't worry if things go to sh** so long as you're just doing it for training. This is the sort of mode where I would suggest something like Sudden Ti because it forces you not to dally around making decisions on where to put pieces and to either play quickly or die.

If you want to practice t-spins, then practice the setups, and try and use them as much as possible in play (40L not really the greatest mode to do this unless you ignore time). For combos and improving downstacking, then I'd recommend drill modes.

Turning off the ghost piece, as myndzi said, is to try and disconnect your hands from your eyes. If you're requiring visual confirmation for every single input then you're going to handicap your speed immensely - you'll play at your fastest when your eyes are merely giving you stack and next piece information. Playing without ghost piece (and also covering the top couple of lines of your stack with paper if you're on a non-0G game) means that you're having to place pieces without being able to see them, which is exactly how the fastest players play - even if they can technically see the active piece they're not actually consciously looking at it. Letting your hands guide the pieces instead of your eyes (use the force, Luke) is the best way to play, and it's exactly why lag hurts better players more than crappy players.

Posted by: Chopin Dec 27 2011, 12:23 AM

A pro way to get good at stacking is to watch pro players play in slow mo.
You'll find that the better the stacker, the more beautiful their playing looks ^o^
Pretend that it's actually yourself playing and question 'why?' to placements that you would not normally use.

Posted by: oh7even Dec 27 2011, 12:28 AM

how do I do slow mo? lol

Posted by: Chopin Dec 27 2011, 01:35 AM

Hmm record them or watch replays and run it in VLC Media Player in a slower speed lol

Posted by: Shizi Dec 27 2011, 01:59 AM

i suggest playing at a slow speed ~50ppm
watch your previews, and think about where each piece should go in advance

Posted by: gerdhal Dec 2 2013, 04:37 PM

May i ask what rank you play on TF online?
I learned alot from your post..


best regards