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> how do i counter combos?, i need some halp
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Trance
post Mar 25 2010, 03:34 AM
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QUOTE(Blink @ Mar 25 2010, 03:06 AM) *

has anyone found an efficient strategy against the middle gap combo start yet? me and Trance ran into one yesterday and it seems like you must pressure them with adds asap at the beginning of the round to stand any chance, and even then he would still take a lot more rounds than he should have.


Meow asked me about this the other day also and I didn't have an answer for him.

The only thing that's worked for me is TST, b2b TST, then proceed to spam TSD's. Add as many lines as you can to prevent them from stacking any further. The more lines you add, the less they can stack. Then when they do start adding...

Pray...?

It's general strategy for combo starts, but the middle gap combo start is all about luck. You lose If they have easy access to the garbage and they use your own lines against you.
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massi4h
post Mar 25 2010, 08:24 AM
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I was playing a really good 4-wide middle comboer when I just started TOJ. The only way I could beat him was with my continuous TST setup. I would get the first one out, so he'd generally have a shorter combo, then the rest would pretty much cancel. I can't remember the details, but I usually somehow won in this situation. I couldn't beat him normally nor could anyone else in the room.


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caffeine
post Mar 25 2010, 09:26 AM
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QUOTE(massi4h @ Mar 25 2010, 08:24 AM) *

I was playing a really good 4-wide middle comboer when I just started TOJ.

He was consistently, successfully doing big combos using 4-wide in the middle? Man, that guy deserves to win.
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massi4h
post Mar 25 2010, 09:40 AM
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Yeah. I was also just playing a slower player atm and he would setup 13+ pretty much every time. He has an English name, can't remember it though.


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Dagorath
post Mar 26 2010, 08:22 AM
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XaeL
post Mar 26 2010, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE(Dagorath @ Mar 26 2010, 08:22 AM) *

I easily kill 4 widers with tetris spam.



doesnt work against uber pros.


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QUOTE(Paradox @ Dec 16 2010 @ 05:52 PM)
Like many setups here, it is useful if your opponent doesn't move and you get 4 Ts in a row.
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massi4h
post Mar 26 2010, 10:53 AM
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Quick question. Is the only law to die in Tetris Multiplayer (TF, TOJ, TDS from what I am thinking) is when a piece tries to spawn but is blocked?

This is why you can survive slightly longer in TOJ up the top than TF.

Cause then 4-wides in the center are ridiculously hard to beat cause you're not stacking anything where your pieces spawn so it takes your opponent 21 lines of garbage to kill you and by that time you can start your big combo?

That does sound really broken if you can pull it off consistently.


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Dagorath
post Mar 26 2010, 04:02 PM
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GoldPlatedDish
post Mar 26 2010, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE(massi4h @ Mar 26 2010, 05:53 AM) *

Cause then 4-wides in the center are ridiculously hard to beat cause you're not stacking anything where your pieces spawn so it takes your opponent 21 lines of garbage to kill you and by that time you can start your big combo?


I've seen Top Outs where garbage pushes the blocks all the way to row 20, and not a single row higher. Just when it stops rising, game ends. This is very frustrating, especially when I know I still could play my pieces!


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massi4h
post Mar 26 2010, 10:58 PM
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Yeah TF does that and I think it's because the pieces spawn in the well rather than above it. It annoys me alot, especially since the garbage doesn't come instantly, you can even save yourself if your next block is an I and there is a big tetris column in the middle.


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Blink
post Mar 28 2010, 02:55 PM
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I think I found a decent counter for the middle gap combo player, I've been testing it against middle gap players and it's been working pretty well.

If I know he's going to middle gap combo I start with my own 3 column gap combo, I can pull this off faster than he can set up for a long combo with less risk of breaking my chain because it's easier to manage. Even if he does pull together a longer combo than me, I can survive a few additional (around +3 or +4 my chainlength) and have some very nice garbage to send back to him. If his chain is even longer than that, I'm pretty much dead but considering as I usually finish my combo before him, I can send a few extra lines at the end while he's performing his combo to counter a bit.

Nothing fancy but so far it's been working against 3 players who have been trying middle gap on me.
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briannn
post Mar 29 2010, 12:41 PM
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you can also try stacking 4 gap on the side since you know the lines will come slowly (like you know when they will start coming) so you won't top out accidentally (stacking for a side gap is easier and faster than stacking for a middle gap). i haven't tried this out myself, but i've seen other players use it as a counter...


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Paul676
post Apr 5 2010, 10:43 PM
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Here's my tactic against 4 widers-

This comes in 3 parts

1. Stack for tetrises as quick as you can. As soon as you get the tetris opportunity, use it. Most similar to blockbox tactics at the start really. Don't stack high, it plays into their hands if you do. Stack low and do low tetrises. If you can tspin faster than you can tetris, do quick tspin doubles. This part means that they cannot build their walls as high and so their combo can't be as big.

2. When they start their combo, don't counter straight away. Just keep on building for tetrises or if the gap is in the middle, build for tetrises and then add in a tspin double setup on top. This stage also means you can manipulate your hold queue so that you have an I piece in it, which will come in useful in stage 3

3. When their combo is near the end and you are being sent 3 or 4 lines at a time, now you need to release the tetrises, not before. Block 1 combo unit with 1 tetris unit. This means that there won't be any "waste garbage" which gets sent to them, but as much of the combo is blocked as possible.

With any luck, they are now near the top because you've put pressure on them, and with a messy stack, and even if you're near the top, your stack will be cleaner because you've been stacking for tetrises, and so you will have the upper hand.

I had a quick look at blink vs kotetsu to see what blink was doing wrong or right- when he did the tetris tactic, he built too high and it meant kotetsu had more clearance- when he did the quick tspin tactic, it was working but then when kotetsu started the combo, blink immediately blocked the garbage rather than waiting until nearer the end of the combo to block with I pieces.

This works with the 4 gappers I come across day to day- it would be interesting if it works with those who are faster than me. What I have noticed however is that if I survive their 4 gap, I'll usually be in a far better position than them and a quick ds will top them out


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Shizi
post Apr 5 2010, 11:39 PM
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4 gap on side only works in toj
lines come too fast in TF
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