Looking for some advice on DAS settings/finesse

[pwn_by_numbers]

Hi guys,

I started playing Tetris about a year ago, and saw steady progress in all areas of my play (sprint time, arena rank, etc.), but I recently started plateauing, and I'm trying to figure out what I can do to start improving again.

Lately, I'm starting to think that my DAS settings or lack of proper finesse is what is holding me back. I misdrop so often that I have to restart >90% of my sprint games. I always thought this was normal, and just a result of trying to play at top speed, but I also misdrop a ton in multiplayer games - I think more than a lot of players do. I've noticed that I consistently will score 30 or 40 lines more than the 2nd place player and still lose in arena, and it's starting to seem like the only reason that I'm losing is misdrops. Anyway, I'm starting to realize that my sloppy play is holding me back, but I'm not really sure what I can do to stop misdropping so often.

The reason I suspect my tuning might be an issue is I sometimes get misdrops where the piece will seem to move after I place it. I recorded a replay of a typical sprint game for me (not my best) in Nullpo to show what I'm talking about:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5772976/misdrop.rep

I do fine until around 26 sec, where I get a weird misdrop, and it's all downhill from there. This is with the default DAS settings on Nullpo (0 AR and 7 DAS I believe). On TF I have to play with DAS set to 2 (I prefer max AR) or I misdrop nearly every peice. I can't even comprehend how some players can play with DAS set to 5... do I have a bad keyboard? I know a lot of players with slower sprints than me who play with much higher DAS, what gives? (Here's my TF profile if you want to look at my sprint replay there: http://www.tetrisfriends.com/users/profile.php?id=3833100)

Sorry if this is too detailed. I saw a lot of great advice in the thread FireTsar made, so I hoping someone could  give me some similar advice. Thanks!

[unpronuncyashun2]

Hey Pwn_by_numbers, I think the best way to  reduce MDs is to learn proper finesse. This may decrease your speed initially, but you'll get that speed back later by developing a highly efficient playing style. There's no way to learn finesse right away but getting the Finesse Coach Mod for Nullpomino will help point it out when you're being inefficient. Other than that the best way to get base speed is by sprinting and raising your sprint time. I got used to 5/5 in TF very quickly after I started sprinting with 7 max 0 min DAS in Nullpomino. So I would just sprint in Nullpo for a while to get faster. To get your finesse working better faster, Vince_L suggested to Katatoniapeth that a good method is to lower TF DAS/ARR settings to 1/1 and play like that for a while. Your finesse mistakes become much more pronounced and you'll have to become a more efficient player if you want to reduce the mistakes enough to stay competitive. I'm still learning proper finesse myself, but I had my first no finesse fault sprint the other day and it felt great.

[Paul676]

I'm sorry unpronouncyashun but the problem with his sprint is not about learning proper finesse, because the mds are happening after he thinks he's placed the piece - these sound like lag mds, which can come from anything like your computer's keyboard, graphics card, general computer stuff, whatever, rather than whether he's comfortable with his movement scheme.

The way to check for what it might be is to play slowly (say, by trying to spot more t-spins) and see if you misdrop. If you've just learnt a new das setting you're more likely to md than if you're set in one for over a month or 2. So maybe it's worth sticking at the same one for a while.

I've got not great finesse (roughly 20 mistakes in a reasonably good game) but I'm one of the least misdroppy players around.

[pwn_by_numbers]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. Unpronuncyashun, I think you are right that learning finesse is the best solution. I get around 20-30 faults in nullpo if I pay attention and be some what careful, but like 40-50 if I don't.

I've been playing a bit with the finesse coach, and it could be easier to use, but it seems to be helping a bit. Honestly, I think just slowing down and being more careful is helping more than anything. It's just really hard to fight the instinct to try and place pieces faster than I can without being sloppy.

And Paul, I think some of my md's are probably due to lag, especially on TF, but I'm playing on a brand new PC, and I've never had any problem running Nullpo, so I don't think that's the entire explanation.

I guess I should have been a little more clear in my original post, but is it normal to play on pretty low DAS settings at the speed I'm at? In Nullpo right now I'm at 9/0 and my sprints are between 45 and 50 seconds.

I've noticed that sometimes a piece will DAS to the wall, and I'll have to tap like 5 or 6 times to get it to the other side of the field - I'm starting to wonder if this is just because I'm holding the arrows when I'm not supposed to be. I hold left and right almost all of the time, and I'm wondering if that's the wrong way to be doing it?

[Paul676]

I was playing on lower when I was at your speed. But my fingers are notoriously light...

And yeah from what it sounds like, you're holding the arrows a bit too long after you place the piece. Try to play more slowly but more accurately. As a side-effect, your downstack will probably improve, and your apm too.

[myndzi]

FWIW, there's a bug in Nullpomino 7.5 where, if you hit hard drop in the same frame as DAS kicks in, the piece will move over two spaces instead of one. That's the only reason I can think of in Nullpomino that a piece would seem to move "after" it was dropped.

There is also the fact that, unless you enable 'shift lock' in the rule you are playing with, if you release hard drop before you release a shift key (left/right) when DAS is enabled, the next piece will spawn and begin DAS immediately. This is more noticeable with instant DAS since it will appear to spawn at a wall. The best solution to this problem is to tighten up your gameplay and make sure you press and release buttons in the correct order, but lazy people like me can take advantage of the rule setting (I wrote it for that reason )

-

After examining the replay, it looks like you're just not used to the DAS timing yet. the misdrop at 26 seconds was exactly 1 frame off, meaning that you hit hard drop the frame after the DAS movement happened. Either that, or it's the bug I mentioned.

The thing about DAS is that you have to basically distinguish between "greater than" a particular delay or "less than" a particular delay consistently to avoid mistakes. When you speed up your DAS or switch games, etc. it can take a while to adjust. If you've played on 8 DAS for example for a long time, you'll be used to 8 DAS timings... if you then go to 7, you'll find yourself making this kind of misdrop because your instinct and muscle memory is calibrated to greater than or less than 8 frames. Best advice I can give you is try to play more "stacatto"; don't be heavy on the keys.

You might also practice on the same settings in Nullpomino 7.6 to see if you are being affected by the DAS bug.

For emphasis, holding an arrow key after hitting hard drop will NOT cause a piece to drop somewhere else, with the exception of the mentioned bug. The frame you hit hard drop decides where the piece goes. By the way, if you are hitting that bug often, it means you have very accurate timing!

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I've noticed that sometimes a piece will DAS to the wall, and I'll have to tap like 5 or 6 times to get it to the other side of the field - I'm starting to wonder if this is just because I'm holding the arrows when I'm not supposed to be. I hold left and right almost all of the time, and I'm wondering if that's the wrong way to be doing it?
[/quote]

There is a technique that players use called DAS preservation, where they rely on holding the key down to activate DAS on the next piece(s) immediately. It is not a problem to hold keys, as long as you're holding them for a reason! DAS charging begins from the frame you press a shift key (left/right) and once DAS is charged it stays charged until you release that key.