Phantom Mania Cleared

[Question_Mark]

For what it's worth, you can charge DAS completely during ARE until level 400. Of course, you'll need to be tight on locking quickly upon reaching the destination and then recharging. Curious what "lemons into lemonade" other bit refers to.

Oh yeah, I'm all over charging DAS in ARE . The whole question is being tight with man-locking. Which is what my "lemons into lemonade" bit refers to. I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but at least for me, NullpoMino has appreciable input lag, which I'd put pretty consistently around 4-5 frames. Previously I dealt with it by "thinking ahead" a few frames, which gets tricky fast when using instant ARR, so I just slow down and waste some frames making sure the piece is in the right place.

But now that I'm down to 1G ARR, it takes a few frames just to get the piece from the center to the side. So if I smack the lock key exactly when the piece starts to DAS left/right, the input lag reliably cancels the delay and gives me locking within 0-1 frames. So input lag + non-instant ARR = lemonade.

Hmm, sounds limiting. At the bare minimum you need a device that supports the inputs you're performing. I suppose it's all well and good if it's a matter of preference, however, I don't think it makes sense to stick with it if it's an artificial limitation just for the sake of it; there is more than enough to deal with as it is without a potentially unreliable input scheme on top of that.

I briefly tested a few 2H setups and confirmed that any simultaneous inputs beyond the third are dropped, so it's definitely a keyboard problem. Better than my laptop though - that can only take two at a time, and is as controllable as an elephant in treacle. I'll be looking for thin keyboards that can take four simultaneous inputs in the future.

As for the OH input scheme... it definitely started as a self-imposed challenge, but I don't know if it still is. I might be a bit too used to it at this point. (It's not really feasible to exceed 210 TPM with it, but I didn't honestly expect to anyways.) I tried a few good old-fashioned 2H inputs like the TF defaults and left-to-move, right-to-rotate systems, and I don't think I can play as fast. It's no matter, though - I'd say 3-input exhaustion causes about 90% of my misdrops, with most of the remainder due to locking up on a weird and/or uncommon hand position. But those I can "see" and recover from. Hand-fail is a physical thing and I know I messed up before the piece locks, meaning I can deal with it. Input-fail is sometimes a single frame where the piece gets switched into Hold and immediately locks - and since I have no haptic feedback I can't process the information in advance. If I can solve that problem then life will be good.

Question for you, if you've the time. Seeing as I'm working with step reset, I started trying out pyramid stacking. I'm obviously not good at it but I think it does make the job a touch easier beyond 400 when lock delay starts to get a bit tight. Would you say it's worth picking up as a strategy for the higher levels? Assuming memory/visualisation is not a problem, that is.

[Rosti_LFC]

Ah fair enough on the instant DAS - that would explain the difference. You'd hinted in the sense you said 60Hz ARR was pissing you off, but you'd never explicitly said you were on instant DAS earlier. Would account for the time difference (though I'm still kind of impressed how much difference it makes). And yeah with step reset it's going to start to fuck you as well because you'll start feeling the speed imposed upon you a lot more.

But now that I'm down to 1G ARR, it takes a few frames just to get the piece from the center to the side. So if I smack the lock key exactly when the piece starts to DAS left/right, the input lag reliably cancels the delay and gives me locking within 0-1 frames. So input lag + non-instant ARR = lemonade.

Interesting and fairly novel way of dealing with it. Not sure I'd be able to pick it up - I personally rely on a kind of feel based around timings and sounds of the game (and mentally trying to push myself to go faster against the input lag every now and again so I can anticipate it), but I could see why this method would work too. Would obvious be differently appropriate for people on proper TA Death on a TAP PCB just because the input lag will be different.

Question for you, if you've the time. Seeing as I'm working with step reset, I started trying out pyramid stacking. I'm obviously not good at it but I think it does make the job a touch easier beyond 400 when lock delay starts to get a bit tight. Would you say it's worth picking up as a strategy for the higher levels? Assuming memory/visualisation is not a problem, that is.

Full pyramid stacking would be overkill - even decent TGM players seem to drop out of the habit of doing it a bit later on. If we're ignoring the invisible aspect then exploiting overhangs and kicks can be useful against step reset, but in general just trying to keep *some* step in there somewhere is the main thing. Pyramid stacking is helpful because it can let you abuse the step reset to buy a few crucial extra frames if you need it, but at high speeds like Death 400+ I'd argue the lock delay is too quick to exploit and doesn't really afford you much. Plus I think with SRS it kind of fucks your finesse up a bit if you have a stack with too many elevation changes because you bring wallkicks into play when you'd rather not.

And I would say you'll definitely need to get a better control system, either through hardware or just through taking a bit of time to work on using two hands. Death 500 is way too fucking quick with step reset for your inputs to be anything other than precise and 100% reliable. Just being one frame late on an input and losing the DAS charge and rhythm can be enough to completely flail on four or five pieces and entirely ruin your stack. With visible pieces it's pretty gnarly, invisible I'd imagine it's basically game over.

[Kitaru]

But now that I'm down to 1G ARR, it takes a few frames just to get the piece from the center to the side. So if I smack the lock key exactly when the piece starts to DAS left/right, the input lag reliably cancels the delay and gives me locking within 0-1 frames. So input lag + non-instant ARR = lemonade.

lmfao, this kind of owns. Rosti mentioned that TGM/TAP are much more responsive, but you might actually be able to use this visual cue trick for TI since it's also rather laggy.

I agree with Rosti on the other points. "Pyramid stacking" calls out the benefits of having column 5 even with or higher than the surrounding columns to ensure mobility options, but the shape doesn't need to be exaggerated. Plus, you don't really need the benefit of mobility with the flat initial orientations of SRS. Knowing when you have the benefit of step reset may come in handy situationally, but I don't think one should stack specifically around maximizing it.

[zaphod77]

main point of pyramid stacking isn't to abuse lock delay for step reset. its' to make sure you can move pieces to where they are needed.  Since the piece starts at the higheset point, you can move it either left or right.

it's somewhat less important in TI because of hold and the floor kicks helping you out with those I pieces.

and yeah, its much less of a requirement with SRS since its pretty good at climbing over stuff

[Question_Mark]

I admit it - I got so frustrated with the "slower" sections (mainly 0-299) that I had to take a break from Tetris for about a week. I don't seem to have gotten rusty so hopefully I'll have some sort of demonstration soon. (Excuse: With my current setup I usually have my keyboard tucked under my desk, so when I film performances my hand position is a little different and that messes up some of the finer movements, leading to my untimely demise. Whinge, whinge, whinge.)

If I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) you're saying I might want to build some gradient into my stack so I get a bit of step reset when I need it, but I shouldn't go out of my way to stack the whole field that way. I actually tried both methods for a bit - here's what I found after testing at Phantom 500:

Not going out of my way to make column 5 at least a bit higher almost always kills me. Entirely my fault? Yes. I'm not used to 15 frames of lock delay, which is all I get without some step in my stack. I start to misdrop, and once I get >10 holes in my stack it's objectively game over.

Pyramid stacking, once successfully built, makes it much less stressful getting pieces to the sides of the field. However, there are two problems. First, the contour: I have a bit of trouble keeping track of a stack where the maximum and minimum heights differ significantly, especially if overhangs and/or holes are present. I could probably get over that with a bit of practice, but it's not a big deal. What is is the second problem: The stack. I can't reliably keep the pyramid shape.

Keeping a small step between columns 4,5, and/or 6 and the rest of the stack tends to give me at least one reset, which is usually all that matters when DASing to the side. It's a simple but effective strategy. However, I run into lots of problems when stacking for Tetrises. Since the I floor-kicks in LOL-worthy ways, I try not to rotate it until I'm sure it wall-kicks in the correct direction - and usually I wait too long, and it locks. Since I spawns in 4 through 7, it takes some amount of time to get down the step, while a higher column 5 would just let me wall-kick the I. Again, this is something I'll get the hang of with a bit of practice. The cost of keeping a left-side Tetris well...  

So I will indeed be going with "partial pyramid stacking" and just keeping the center a little higher than the sides.

[Rosti_LFC]

I admit it - I got so frustrated with the "slower" sections (mainly 0-299) that I had to take a break from Tetris for about a week. I don't seem to have gotten rusty...

Frustrated because it means you're behind torikan pace or just because they're boring?

And yeah you should be able to stop playing for a few weeks and come back without having lost all that much. Personally I used to find that if anything taking a break occasionally would seem to improve me when I came back to it.

Keeping a small step between columns 4,5, and/or 6 and the rest of the stack tends to give me at least one reset, which is usually all that matters when DASing to the side.

Yeah this is basically what I was getting at. Zero resets is brutally punishing if you lose the rhythm and miss getting the DAS charge properly in ARE, but one reset is usually enough to give you enough contingency there.

As for the I-kicks, from what I remember of SRS doesn't it usually kick right so long as you rotate it right and vice-versa? At least assuming the stack will let it. To me that always felt like one of the (few) things that gave comfort in SRS 20G and was one of the larger pains in the ass having to get used to with right-biased ARS rotations and kicks.

[zaphod77]

Arika's handling of the I piece is different from normal SRS. I forget exactly how, but i believe the change is intended to help you get pieces to the side.

[Zowayix]

http://harddrop.com/wiki/SRS#Arika_SRS

This explains it. It just changes the priority of some of the different possible rotations so that clearing Tetrises in 20G becomes easier.

[zaphod77]

That's what I thought.

[XaeL]

That's what I thought.

In other words ARS srs is superior.