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> Hi. Can someone help me understand this option in Tetris 64?
Shellshocker18
post Aug 30 2017, 09:26 PM
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Hi. I'm a casual Tetris player with a recent 403 line record in New Tetris. Clap for me. Anyway, I want help knowing what the frick this option does from someone who understands Tetris better than I do. I told someone I know of that I wanted help from real Tetris players, and he said I was ignorant and that he was a real Tetris player, and I had to explain that I meant people who actually understand the mechanisms that make every Tetris game unique unlike casual players. It's not that hard to figure out what I meant.

It's from Tetris 64, the Japanese exclusive one developed by SETA.
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It wouldn't surprise me if nobody here has played it, it's a pretty tame version of Tetris. But it has more options than the other 2 N64 Tetris games. Wallkicks on/off, whether or not blocks rotate at the center, or whether the block falling is smooth or grid-like. But the option Double Turn what I don't understand. Even translating the manual text doesn't make it clear to me.
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It's on the second page of options, you have to press R to get to that page. It might have something to do with spins or T-spins but I can't figure it out. This might be asking a lot or it might be ridiculously obvious, but if someone has is game or an emulator and could figure out this option, I'd appreciate it.
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caffeine
post Aug 31 2017, 12:15 AM
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Great question. I'm stumped.
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Sisu
post Aug 31 2017, 08:57 PM
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Interesting! I never noticed there was a second option page :0

Could you please post a pic of the manual text?


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Shellshocker18
post Sep 1 2017, 12:12 PM
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Yeah I know, I played several times before finding it. SETA didn't put in any indicator it was there, and even then only the R or L button actually takes you there. I know it says page 1 but the whole game is in engrish anyway.

But here is the page
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Thanks again guys for offering to help
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Kitaru
post Sep 2 2017, 03:10 AM
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Oh wow, it sounds like it has a 180 rotate like Puyo Puyo 2!! My girlfriend helped read it: to paraphrase, "if the tetromino has an area to rotate, press the button 2 times and it will rotate automatically."

I also have this cart at home but haven't tested it out yet. I'll definitely give it a look.


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Okey_Dokey
post Sep 2 2017, 10:27 AM
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No-kick 180 rotate really works, if this option (Double Turn) is activated. With it you can make J- & L-Spin Triples Doubles. Bio Mode has got some Pentominoes where it should also work. If you activate Rotate Center (4 rotation states for O, S, Z, I pieces whereas I piece rotates weirdly), then you can even make O-Spin Singles Gasp.png (that must be the closest you get to O-Spin Doubles in any official game). If you activate Offset Turn (tries to kick a piece left or right), then you can also make a kick-spin with horizontal T and rotate J, L, T in a 2-wide. If you activate both Rotate Center and Offset Turn, then you can also make 180 spins with vertical I and horizontal S, Z.

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Kitaru
post Sep 2 2017, 10:51 AM
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I just cleaned my cart and GameShark (using it as a passthrough). I just about flipped out when the no kick 180 J-spin worked.

The other settings... You can O-spin!? You can do some of the Heboris/Nullpomino 180s!?!? I think I'm going to die, hahahaha.


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Kitaru
post Sep 2 2017, 01:22 PM
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Okey: I can't get that L-Spin Triple to work. It seems like it would require a downward kick (with or without Rotate Center). Can you confirm the settings and what setup would be needed?


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caffeine
post Sep 2 2017, 01:57 PM
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Wow! 180 rotation in a licensed Tetris game as early as 1998... Who'd a thunk it? Great find, shellshocker18!
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Shellshocker18
post Sep 2 2017, 02:45 PM
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I'm glad you guys are having a field day with this. Awsome post Okey_Dokey. I just now realized that months ago when I was writing about the game this forum wiki was one of the places I stopped. Thought nobody would notice you used a demo mode screenshots? Well I did.

So this technique is unique to Tetris 64 as far as Tetris company games go huh? Did they get rid of 180 rotation later to homogenize every game or does it still pop up? They didn't have such strict guidelines back then. Either way thats very neat. Tetris 64 has a very odd amount of customization options as far as the rotation system goes. Far more than Magical Tetris Challenge and The New Tetris which are fixed.

So guys the reason I asked for help was because I'm helping write a book with 3 other guys and community help called the N-Cylopedia 64.

http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forev.../9010437/2/#new

It's meant to be actual expert coverage of N64 because other books have lots of biased and pathetically short writing, omissions, and incorrect info. This includes coverage of every game in the form of "reviews". But we aren't inserting our own bias into it and any criticisms of games are strictly those from the points of view of other players and everything is worded in a way to not lump everyone together since what one person dislikes won't bother someone else. Of course even with 4 people we can't be experts at everything which is why I come places like here. My research has taken me lots of weird new places. The past 2 days I've been studying the history of shogi artificial intelligence programming. I'm going as deep as I can. These "reviews" are meant to be informational more than anything and cover this like advertising, promotional events, beta elements etc.

Tetris 64 just has to be a review. It doesn't have any promotional items that I know of(that's not my field) or an available development history. It was just shown at Space World 1997 then came out. It doesn't even have measured sales numbers from what we've found depite it being a decently popular import when it was new.

I've got the best explanation of the bio Tetris mode that I've found to exist. And thanks to you guys I think I have the best explanation of why it is unique for its time period and how it compares to the other 2 Tetris games. You guys can obviosly use this stuff for your wiki too. I don't own this discovery.

I wanted to make completely sure I was understanding these options right, so in the event a pro Tetris player i.e. you guys, reads it, they wouldn't see it and think it was a typical internet review rush job. I'll definitely give this forum a shout out in the book, though I doubt you guys need it. This isn't me begging or anything, but if someone here wanted to read over my N64 Tetris coverage and make sure everything is worded right that would be helpful too.
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caffeine
post Sep 2 2017, 04:06 PM
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In that case I should add, since it hasn't already been said explicitly, that this is the only licensed Tetris game to allow 180 rotation. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Before this, only unlicensed fan games made use of it. The earliest I know of is Quadra, which was released in 1999. For Quadra, it's likely that 180 rotation wasn't added until later on. So this is actually the first occurrence of 180 rotation that I am aware of in any game.
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Okey_Dokey
post Sep 2 2017, 04:17 PM
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QUOTE(Shellshocker18 @ Sep 2 2017, 02:45 PM) *
Awsome post Okey_Dokey

Actually, I couldn't have helped at all without Kitaru's translation. The day before I tested the game with Double Turn on and off and didn't notice any difference. It's not that any day you see a game where you rotate the piece against a wall and if you do it twice something might happen.

QUOTE(Shellshocker18 @ Sep 2 2017, 02:45 PM) *
So this technique is unique to Tetris 64 as far as Tetris company games go huh?

As far as I know yes. IIRC 180 rotation isn't implemented in any official Tetris game. I have also not seen the O piece rotating in a circle ( Rotate Center on) in any official game (although that happens in the guideline definition of SRS before kicks are applied).

QUOTE(Kitaru @ Sep 2 2017, 01:22 PM) *
Okey: I can't get that L-Spin Triple to work. It seems like it would require a downward kick (with or without Rotate Center).

Yes, my bad. I will fix my post. It should have been an L-Spin Double. There are no downward kicks; it may only happen that I, O, S and Z rotate downwards with Rotate Center activated.

Regarding O-Spin: With all 3 options turned on (Double Turn, Rotate Center, Offset Turn), you should be able to make an even more weird looking O-Spin Single.



And when I made that horizontal T-Spin kick, I noticed a strange thing (not sure if feature or bag): If Offset Turn is activated, you can move a piece below an overhang one row before it falls down to the overhang.

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cn_
post Sep 2 2017, 09:13 PM
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QUOTE(caffeine @ Sep 2 2017, 04:06 PM) *

In that case I should add, since it hasn't already been said explicitly, that this is the only licensed Tetris game to allow 180 rotation. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) Before this, only unlicensed fan games made use of it. The earliest I know of is Quadra, which was released in 1999. For Quadra, it's likely that 180 rotation wasn't added until later on. So this is actually the first occurrence of 180 rotation that I am aware of in any game.


Wouldn't this precede even Quadra, as Tetris 64 was released in 1998?


Edit: Welp, you even mentioned that a few posts up.


Perhaps Shellshocker18 might be interested in the fact that the O-spin has practically been a running joke in the community for many years, yet this officially licensed implementation has flown straight under the radar of, well, probably everyone here.
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Shellshocker18
post Sep 3 2017, 01:38 AM
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lol what's the joke? Is the Tetris company scared of O-spins? To be fair this game may have started unlicensed but that's just one of many theoretical possibilities with no real evidence. It's a long story but Amtex and SETA both developed part of the game but only SETA is credited in the game and on boxes, manuals, and official websites. Amtex's name is only on a chip inside the biosensor, and when it was shown at Space World 1997 it was reported that it was Amtex employees showing it off for N64. SETA maybe payed them for their game and biosensor technology early on and just never removed the options Amtex put in. This is only 1 possibility though. SETA could have very easily started it. I mean heck they hid the options pretty well it seems
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Kitaru
post Sep 4 2017, 06:02 AM
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QUOTE(Okey_Dokey @ Sep 2 2017, 09:17 AM) *

QUOTE(Shellshocker18 @ Sep 2 2017, 02:45 PM) *
Awsome post Okey_Dokey

Actually, I couldn't have helped at all without Kitaru's translation.
Credit for the translation goes to my girlfriend Chronatsu. smile.gif

QUOTE(Okey_Dokey @ Sep 2 2017, 09:17 AM) *
And when I made that horizontal T-Spin kick, I noticed a strange thing (not sure if feature or bag): If Offset Turn is activated, you can move a piece below an overhang one row before it falls down to the overhang.
I think that's just a visual artifact due to Smooth gravity. Other games with Smooth gravity also exhibit that partial overlap behavior when you slide a piece below an overhang.


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