Is this still happening or what ?


(previously: I heard there was once a project to merge harddrop's and tetrisconcept's wiki into a single one and asked how it was going. Generally people agreed, there's was some heated discussion on why tetrisconcept is .net and no longer .com and..... HD crashed hard)

its your threads that cause everything to go to shits

A summary of my thoughts... "Why the hell not?"

Quote from: MarioThePhenom
its your threads that cause everything to go to shits

It's a legitimate discussion of something that is being considered, the problem isn't the thread it's that some people get a bit snippy with the topic.

Quote from: DAS44
It's a legitimate discussion of something that is being considered, the problem isn't the thread it's that some people get a bit snippy with the topic.

i was kiddddding
a few days after this was posted the something happened to the server HD was being hosted on, and this just so happened to have been the last thread to cause up a big discussion

Quote from: PetitPrincehttp://tetris.wikia.com/
http://harddrop.com/wiki/
http://www.tetrisconcept.net/wiki/

There's three Tetris focused wiki in the Internet. All three have basically the same content.

Can't we just have just one ?

There's no logic on diluting the workforce on identical wiki. It's confusing for the occasional contributor. Also, I don't like Wikia

• .
  
  FULL DISCLOSURE: I lurk from time to time on #Arika and I know that myndzi and muf had a project of unifying TC and HD wiki in one awesome wiki. I wanted to know ho it was going since I last heard of it and I'm making this public because it's seems to me a cool thing for the Tetris community in general and I'm looking forward to it.
  
  
• sad fact: when I type "Tetris Wiki" in Google, only Wikia shows up for the first page
  

FTFY

This got pretty heated before, but the original wiki "ownership" issue needs to be resolved before anything can proceed IMHO.

EDIT:
Sisu7:56yeah, thats wut i was gettin at. IF a "merger" wood require cafes consent, then the discussion is moot if cafes not onboard
Sisu7:57the way i see it, either cafe owns it or no1 duz
Sisu7:57how cood ownership possibly b split btwn so many authors? :/
Sisu7:58but ofc im a legal newb. meh

EDIT2:
www.tetrisconcept.com
is back

I'm very intrigued by your thread title, Petit.

Can somebody please inform me of the full situation? What exactly is the current situation with Wikia, HD, TetrisConcept, etc? How did the idea of "Wikimerge" arise? Why is the ownership issue such a big deal and how can it be fixed?


I'd really appreciate it if someone could clear things things up, thanks.

In the beginning, there was Tetris Concept. It had a forum and a wiki.

Caffeine wanted to shut the site down, the community didn't want to lose their focal point and contributions.

Caffeine took down tetrisconcept.com. He put the wiki data on wikia and (I think?) gave Blink a copy for Harddrop, which was started up at the same time this happened.

Some members cloned the content and put up tetrisconcept.net, and there is much unnecessary drama over the whole business. As of the last thread, caffeine maintains "ownership" of all the user-contributed content that was on his site, while the community in general disagrees. He has yet to provide any legal grounds to support his claim. (Note: he believes he has, most of us disagree that his stated legal claim is legitimate. This was under discussion the last time HD went down.)

As a result of all of this, there are three wikis that share a substantial core of data. This annoys a lot of us and discourages some people from contributing. In addition, wikia outranks both HD and TC in Google with a horrible ad-laden site.

Many of us would like to see one wiki to replace these three, but the people whose permission we need to do so amicably have declined to participate.

There is a fair point about site integration to be argued, though there are also many ways to work around it. Technically, the Harddrop wiki isn't integrated into the site at all - it only really shares a common coloring/theme and some links back and forth. Nevertheless, it still seems to be a big deal whose hard drive the data is on and nobody wants to give up control.

That should about sum it up.

Note: by "many of us", what I mean to say is that my best guess at consensus puts more of the users who care in the "merge" camp, with the minority in the "leave well enough alone" camp. The majority of users not directly involved in managing any of the sites in question don't seem to have a strong opinion.

tl; dr:


Nobody has read the wiki for ages.

Quote from: XaeLtl; dr:

Nobody has edited the wiki for ages.

fixed it 4 u

Quote from: myndzi
In the beginning, there was Tetris Concept. It had a forum and a wiki.

Caffeine wanted to shut the site down, the community didn't want to lose their focal point and contributions.

Caffeine took down tetrisconcept.com. He put the wiki data on wikia and (I think?) gave Blink a copy for Harddrop, which was started up at the same time this happened.

Some members cloned the content and put up tetrisconcept.net, and there is much unnecessary drama over the whole business. As of the last thread, caffeine maintains "ownership" of all the user-contributed content that was on his site, while the community in general disagrees. He has yet to provide any legal grounds to support his claim. (Note: he believes he has, most of us disagree that his stated legal claim is legitimate. This was under discussion the last time HD went down.)

As a result of all of this, there are three wikis that share a substantial core of data. This annoys a lot of us and discourages some people from contributing. In addition, wikia outranks both HD and TC in Google with a horrible ad-laden site.

Many of us would like to see one wiki to replace these three, but the people whose permission we need to do so amicably have declined to participate.

There is a fair point about site integration to be argued, though there are also many ways to work around it. Technically, the Harddrop wiki isn't integrated into the site at all - it only really shares a common coloring/theme and some links back and forth. Nevertheless, it still seems to be a big deal whose hard drive the data is on and nobody wants to give up control.

That should about sum it up.

Note: by "many of us", what I mean to say is that my best guess at consensus puts more of the users who care in the "merge" camp, with the minority in the "leave well enough alone" camp. The majority of users not directly involved in managing any of the sites in question don't seem to have a strong opinion.

I think this situation should be handled in private with Caffeine and Blink.
Even if the "majority" of the users want to merge the wikis together, Caffeine was the owner of TC and didn't give permission for the cloning for the new TC to happen. Also, you stated that he gave the wiki to Blink for HD. So it seems appropriate to discuss the matter with those guys instead of leaving it to the open for the mass.

And since there was so much of an uproar in the previous thread on this topic before HD crashed you should know where Blink and Caffeine already stand on this matter.

Tetris concept story

Quote from: Panda
Can somebody please inform me of the full situation? What exactly is the current situation with Wikia, HD, TetrisConcept, etc? How did the idea of "Wikimerge" arise? Why is the ownership issue such a big deal and how can it be fixed?
I'd really appreciate it if someone could clear things things up, thanks.

I am almost superstitious when speaking on this topic. The last three times I did, HD got hacked/wiped. As a result, I keep needing to write it over again.

The year is 2005. The best players were on Tetrinet, Quadra, and Tetron. These communities were cliquey--and even worse--competitive to the point that they deliberately withheld knowledge/strategies. Most of what was shared was done so via the ephemeral chat feature. Don't get me wrong, this is where I first learned how deep the Tetris rabbit hole goes. I was greatly inspired by spindizzy's articles about the game. It was refreshing to see a top player articulate his ideas so well. And what great ideas! Despite that, it was just a poor plot of land to grow lasting roots. Besides, those games seemed even at the time to have an expiration date. I wanted to work towards improving myself for the long run. That meant I needed to focus more on TTC-type games.

TTC had recently shut down one of my favorite (and one of the only) public sources for Tetris knowledge: Tetris Lovers.  I had been playing Tetris Worlds (multiplayer online on Xbox) for a couple of years. While I loved it and made many (Tetris) friends, I felt limited. There was still more improving to do--more mysteries of Tetris to unravel. This is when I started a little side-project, near to my heart, that I like to call tetrisconcept.com.

[div align=\\\"center\\\"][!--ImageUrlBegin--][a href=\\\"http://harddrop.com/file/pic/gallery/4846.jpg\\\" target=\\\"_new\\\"][!--ImageUrlEBegin--][img width=\\\"400\\\" class=\\\"attach\\\" src=\\\"http://harddrop.com/file/pic/gallery/4846.jpg\\\" border=\\\'0\\\' alt=\\\"IPB Image\\\" /][!--ImageUrlEnd--][/a][!--ImageUrlEEnd--]
[/div]

It started slow--extremely slow--but I kept at it. I must've looked fairly pathetic, updating a website of which only search engine robots seemed to take interest in. I think it was colour_thief who was my first forum member. I'd seen him before on GameFAQs talking about some Japanese game with high gravity that was the subject of this rad viral video that was making rounds on eBaum's World. I'd wanted to wait until the site grew a little more, but it was thanks to CT that the wiki got a head start. We stayed up all night laying the foundations. He had a huge list of Tetris titles to start from. He deservedly became the forum's first mod. The wiki actually served as a catalyst for the forum when Tetris DS came out. It drew in new players who were searching for quality Tetris intel, and that's when TC's turned out to be a (modest) success.

The years passed by. New games came out (but nothing nearing the height of TDS's popularity). I still strived to become a better player. There was still more to learn, but at least now there was an active community. There was a body of knowledge. Good stuff. I began my career, the process of buying a house, wanting to spend more time with my girlfriend, etc. Working a ton of hours every week, I was "time poor." I desperately needed to free up my schedule. That's when I decided to say farewell to TC.

I loved it too much to simply "give up" and leave it as is without caring for it (e.g. Tetris Taxonomy). There was no one I felt comfortable handing it over to, either. Don't get me wrong, I had plenty of friends who were capable of making their own wonderful sites, but the way I did TC was a little on the weird side. I won't go into details, but my style received heavy criticism on more than one occasion. Also, there was (and still is) a small, but intense TGM-Super-Clique (TSC). I was afraid that if it went in that direction, TC would lose its scope. That's by no means what I had in mind for the project I'd worked so hard to build and grow over the years. Most of all, I was proud of TC and wanted it to go out with the same principles I'd stuck to while maintaining it. The best option was to simply shut down.

I was confident that a new (perhaps even better?) site would pop up. I was fully prepared to advertise them for the rest of my site's lease (a perk TC.com was never so lucky to have!) Not wanting to lose the most important content, I sent it to Wikia. Later, I gave it to blink once he established HD as a serious effort. I'd tried to recruit someone to host an offline version of the forum so that that content wouldn't be lost either.

Anyway, I was naive and thought people would adapt and move on. However, TSC felt hurt, and more importantly, they felt entitled to the tetrisconcept namesake. The group is blessed with some very intelligent and capable members, since they managed to screen scrape the entire website with dead-on accuracy. They moved it completely to a their own .net domain. Nevermind the legalities, they had saved the day from the evil caffeine. The memory I'd envisioned for TC's closing was spoiled and tarnished. Many friends were lost.

This brings us up to date. TSC has spun this attempt to "unify" HD and TC.net's wikis. They've proposed hosting it on a non-partisan site (myndzi's), only the guy hosting TC.net (DeHackEd) is the same guy who will actually be hosting the new "unified" wiki. (Figure that out.)

Now people are throwing out the word "ownership"! It's funny that they use that word when I deliberately freed all the content on the wiki from day one when I attached a Creative Commons license to it. That was actually an unpopular idea at the time since some were worried others would steal it. What a joke--the people who brought up that complaint are the same ones who wound up hijacking my entire site! No, the actual issue here is whether or not TC.net has violated the (very liberal) CC3 license.

You may not implicitly or explicitly assert or imply any connection with, sponsorship or endorsement by the Original Author, Licensor and/or Attribution Parties, as appropriate, of You or Your use of the Work, without the separate, express prior written permission of the Original Author, Licensor and/or Attribution Parties.

Tetrisconcept.net has violated the license by:

• Explicitly asserting connection with my site by using the same title and the same copy-pasted forum content and user information.
• Never gaining permission from the Licensor (myself) to do this.

Moreover, TC.net has added very little to the wiki since I shut down tetrisconcept, yet HD has added quite a bit.

Caffeine, just quickly read your post on the by-chance it gets deleted.


I have to go take a walk in the snow to refresh right now, but once I come back I'll most definitely be commenting on this matter.



Spoiler: I agree with you, your general sentiment, and your overall purpose. My post will soon be edited with an appropriate response.



edit: jk decided to PM caffeine separately later, when i build up stamina and snap out of depression.

Caff: Would you be opposed to a forum merge a priori or would you be happy with it if it were hosted completely non-partisan. Because my view is that it can be only a good thing for the spread of Tetris knowledge.

I would like to clarify a few legal points, which are clearly the cause of much confusion, both in this thread, and the previous thread that got deleted when HD went down recently.


Regarding copyright:
When someone writes something in their own words, whether it be a forum post or wiki contriubtion, or something else, they automatically own copyright to that something under international copyright law; there is no need to apply for or register in order to secure copyright. Also, it is extremely difficult to accidentally lose copyright irrevocably, as in most cases the copyright owner's original written signature is required. Regarding content of forum posts, although forum owners often reserve the right to delete or edit posts, the copyright will always belong to the original author, and at no point to the forum owners.

Regarding wikis, and the CC-BY license:
When someone contributes to a wiki goverend by the CC-BY license, either by editing an existing page, or creating a new one, they are the "Licensor" of whatever content they contribute. This is regardless of whether they are a) the "Original Author" (and hence copyright owner), or b) have permission from the copyright owner, or c) do not have permission from the copyright owner. The website -- or rather the owner of the website -- that hosts the wiki is not the "Licensor". One reason is as follows: suppose a website owner hosts a wiki on their website, and that a contributer decides to upload the entirety of "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" in digital form (either as scans, or text) to that wiki. Clearly, whoever is the "Licensor" in this case is granting rights to something that they don't own the copyright to. If JK Rowling and her publishers were to file a lawsuit, the "Licensor" is potentially liable to pay a large sum in damages. What website owner in their right mind would want to be the "Licensor" in this case?

Therefore, caffeine is not the "Licensor" of any wiki content except for his own contributions, and hence his argument in his post above is legally baseless.

Quote from: ohitsstef
I think this situation should be handled in private with Caffeine and Blink.
Even if the "majority" of the users want to merge the wikis together, Caffeine was the owner of TC and didn't give permission for the cloning for the new TC to happen. Also, you stated that he gave the wiki to Blink for HD. So it seems appropriate to discuss the matter with those guys instead of leaving it to the open for the mass.

Ownership of the "tetrisconcept.com" domain has no relevance to wiki content. Blink could have copied the entire wiki verbatim, with or without caffeine's permission. This is because every single wiki contributor, caffeine included, has granted blink the license to do this, under the terms of the CC-BY license. For this same reason, "tetrisconcept.net", "pointlesstetriswikiforknumber5.com", and "yetanothertetriswikifork.info" are all legally entitled to the same, regardless of what caffeine, blink, or any other individual says.

Furthermore, ownership of the "tetrisconcept.com" and "tetrisconcept.net" domains has nothing to do with the copyright of the domains' respective forum content. Just to recap: copyright of a forum post belongs to the original author, automatically, under international copyright law. Hence when the tetrisconcept.net forum was created, all that happened was that copyrighted forum posts were copied from one website to another. Since caffeine does not own the copyright to any forum posts except for his own, and since those forum posts to which he does own copyright are still clearly attributed to him on the tetrisconcept.net forums and no one else is claiming to have written them, there is no infringement.

Finally, the name "tetrisconcept" is not trademarked. Now, suppose my wife was expecting a baby boy, and that together we'd thought up a really nice and unique name. Suppose also that my friend and his wife were also expecting, and decided, even after we'd asked them not to, to give their son the exact same name as ours. Sure, caffeine is entitled to feel resentment over the fact that the people who created tetrisconcept.net used the "tetrisconcept" name after he told them not to, however, he has no more legal or moral right to the name "tetrisconcept", than I do to my son's name. I leave it up to the individual to decide the extent of such moral right.


I've presented the above as objectively as possible, and merely for the purpose of correcting misinformation.

Quote from: Edo
stuff

Sorry, after caffeines post i didnt read yours and just assumed it was wrong. I'll read it later.