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> Tetris lessons - by XaeL
myndzi
post Jan 30 2012, 08:06 AM
Post #31


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Nice project.

In talking about stacking flat, filling, and some other things, I think it would be useful to have one more video for the first section that covers some piece characteristics. For example, you can say "just dump pieces in here, it doesn't have to be perfect" - but if you dump the wrong pieces in the wrong positions, it becomes much harder to clear out again (For example, high near the wall and low inward with a forced S-shape).

I believe there are enough such simple pattern cases to warrant a video talking about them, and foreknowledge will help new players implement the things you are talking about more easily Smile.png

(An easier way to explain what I mean might be, "what you do now affects the future - here's some common things to avoid" in order to demonstrate how not to lock yourself in to bad shapes)
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XaeL
post Jan 30 2012, 10:19 AM
Post #32


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QUOTE(myndzi @ Jan 30 2012, 08:06 AM) *

Nice project.

In talking about stacking flat, filling, and some other things, I think it would be useful to have one more video for the first section that covers some piece characteristics. For example, you can say "just dump pieces in here, it doesn't have to be perfect" - but if you dump the wrong pieces in the wrong positions, it becomes much harder to clear out again (For example, high near the wall and low inward with a forced S-shape).

I believe there are enough such simple pattern cases to warrant a video talking about them, and foreknowledge will help new players implement the things you are talking about more easily Smile.png

(An easier way to explain what I mean might be, "what you do now affects the future - here's some common things to avoid" in order to demonstrate how not to lock yourself in to bad shapes)

give me an outline and i'll do it...
i find it hard to stack super terribly. like in the video where i said "it doesnt have to be perfect" i tried to do it bad but it ended up perfect.


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QUOTE(Paradox @ Dec 16 2010 @ 05:52 PM)
Like many setups here, it is useful if your opponent doesn't move and you get 4 Ts in a row.
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myndzi
post Jan 30 2012, 06:37 PM
Post #33


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Here's one example of how a placement that seems unintuitive is actually better, with an illustration of why. In general, the concept of how much work it takes to clear which situations is a good subject of discussion, particularly with regards to how many lines must be filled. This one arguably falls under downstacking but I see it as more fundamental and useful than that.

In general, if you can't clear ALL the lines, you should try to stack highest OVER the hole:



I'm not terribly good at coming up with demonstrative examples but I find it very useful in every day play.



Perhaps a better example of what I mean; Zs and Ss perpetuate the shape you stack them on vertically. Recognizing when the shape needs to change, you should avoid stacking them in places where they will only make you have to do the same thing but delay it.

Some properties of different pieces:




Paying attention to where you'll leave the leftover minos can help...



It's easy to identify that when you place pieces flat most of them will leave behind one or two minos when you clear a line; those left-behind minos can be used to shape your field how you need it to be for the pieces coming up, and each kind of piece (S/Z, J/L, T) can do different things. I don't have a comprehensive list of examples, but hopefully these fumens convey a little of what I mean...

This sounds advanced, but it is more of a refinement on "rules of thumb for stacking" that helps refine what makes a good or bad placement. Being flat is enough if you're playing with no previews, but if you know what's coming up you can better prepare ahead of time.
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XaeL
post Jan 31 2012, 12:39 AM
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QUOTE(myndzi @ Jan 30 2012, 06:37 PM) *




Why not just wait for a J or I?
alternative


QUOTE

In general, if you can't clear ALL the lines, you should try to stack highest OVER the hole:



bad example? need different pieces, everyone would just do


(now u see why its hard to think of bad scenarios haha)

QUOTE




from a pure "keep the stack clean" perspective i would probably do this:


QUOTE

Some properties of different pieces:





i like.

QUOTE



The idea is to avoid this situation before it happens. I would probalby figure out a way to get a tsd out of that instead.


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QUOTE(Paradox @ Dec 16 2010 @ 05:52 PM)
Like many setups here, it is useful if your opponent doesn't move and you get 4 Ts in a row.
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Paul676
post Jan 31 2012, 12:52 AM
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My disagreement is in his analysis of the T clear being better than the S clear with regard to downstacking, when it just isn't. The red blocks are in one higher than the other, for no apparent reason. If you get a J or an I within the next few blocks (likely), you're fine and can fill it in quicker than if you used the T.


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myndzi
post Jan 31 2012, 04:11 AM
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Instead of picking apart my examples, please try to understand the idea I'm trying to get across, which is how the different shapes of different pieces affect forward movement. Like XaeL mentioned, I have a hard time coming up with legitimate "bad" examples, these should be taken more as an illustration of how the pieces affect the field shape than specifically how to stack in a given situation. I'd have to play and record some games, and who knows how often I'll have a good example, to get proper examples.

The main point is that XaeL is making decisions he doesn't discuss in his videos; the things he does discuss are important and useful, but somebody trying to follow just the words without those behind the scenes decisions won't get the full value out of it.

I'm sorry that my examples were pretty much terrible Smile.png

Note: this is relatively minor and not a criticism, just a suggestion for making the whole thing more complete. Keep up the good work!

A couple specific responses:

Of course you want to avoid crenellations, but the point of that diagram is to illustrate how when you have to make holes you can make progress while making those holes if you use your "extra" minos well.

T vs S: yes, a J or I makes a better downstack in that specific situation, but the point is to illustrate how the S perpetuates the shape on the right and the T alters it. Also if there were garbage holes under the right side, the I or J would be worse solutions for sure since the J will add at least one more line to clear before you reach the hole and the I could potentially add two.

There are many cases like this, but I don't know how to go about compiling a complete list of "good placements." The point is rather to be aware that this concept exists, and watch for it in your play. When something gets messy, look at how the previous pieces affected why you couldn't straighten it out easily. Pay attention to unintuitive leaves and things like that. This is good for general stacking in all cases.
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XaeL
post Jan 31 2012, 05:48 AM
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QUOTE(myndzi @ Jan 31 2012, 04:11 AM) *

Like XaeL mentioned, I have a hard time coming up with legitimate "bad" examples


See what i mean.. Everytime i try to think of a "bad" situation i end up figuring out a good way to solve it Frown.png


QUOTE
T vs S: yes, a J or I makes a better downstack in that specific situation, but the point is to illustrate how the S perpetuates the shape on the right and the T alters it. Also if there were garbage holes under the right side, the I or J would be worse solutions for sure since the J will add at least one more line to clear before you reach the hole and the I could potentially add two.


If you change the stack to this:


Then the following situations would be good:

i dont see how using the T in the way you mentioned would ever be good...


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QUOTE(Paradox @ Dec 16 2010 @ 05:52 PM)
Like many setups here, it is useful if your opponent doesn't move and you get 4 Ts in a row.
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RedXBaka
post Nov 17 2013, 09:02 AM
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Xael your videos broke and I want to see them Frown.png.
Pretty please?
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