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Forums - Hard Drop - Tetris Community _ Tetris _ The "Electronica 60 Style" Challenge

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 9 2013, 02:16 PM

Yup, is one of these again...

# Objective:
- Clear 40 lines as fast as possible

# Rules:
- No Previews
- No Hold
- No Ghost Piece
- Memoryless Randomizer
- http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=73171


You can choose the rest. (DAS, skin, gravity, etc.)

--------------------

Just to spare you some work, I've made a rule for Nullpomino with those specs. If you don't use Nullpomino... I don't know. Improvise.

You can download the rule http://www.mediafire.com/download/de89dp32gr45ijl/Electronica60.rul.

- Just save it at [Nullpomino Folder] > config > rule
- After that, just open Nullpo and go to Options > Rule Select > Tetromino > Electronica60
- After that, play Line Race and choose Current Rule

--------------------

"People Who Failed The Least"

1 - farter - http://www.mediafire.com/download/12qrv02csimtskk/MPH_01-06-66_farter_2013_08_16_15_47_32.rep
2 - FelipeMayrink - http://mediafire.com/view/pa7bz52wub52cfv/2013_06_09_10_34_46.rep
3 - VladtheImpala - 80 Seconds
fnord - 80 Seconds
MarioThePhenom - 81 Seconds
Suturo1337 - 88 Seconds
CaptainPaul - 88 Seconds
Ivor - 104 Seconds
simonlc - 136 Seconds

Posted by: simonlc Jun 9 2013, 04:09 PM

2:16.55 lol

Posted by: Suturo1337 Jun 9 2013, 04:35 PM

1:28

Posted by: CaptainPaul Jun 9 2013, 05:14 PM

128 as well.

Posted by: MarioThePhenom Jun 9 2013, 07:10 PM

29.93
lol jk ill try soon

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 9 2013, 07:19 PM

QUOTE(MarioThePhenom @ Jun 9 2013, 07:10 PM) *

29.93
lol jk ill try soon

lol, don't even man.
If someone can sub-60 this thing, they deserve a freaking medal.

Posted by: Ivor Jun 9 2013, 08:52 PM

1:44

Posted by: MarioThePhenom Jun 9 2013, 09:16 PM

QUOTE(FelipeMayrink @ Jun 9 2013, 07:19 PM) *

lol, don't even man.
If someone can sub-60 this thing, they deserve a freaking medal.

are you ready to give me a medal? Sticking Out Tongue.png

Posted by: Sisu Jun 9 2013, 09:28 PM

This challenge is more akin to MPH:

QUOTE(Sisu @ Dec 4 2011, 07:02 AM) *
Yes, as soon as Hebo_MAI masters MPH (Memoryless Previewless Holdless) he will truly be unbeatable.

QUOTE(Sisu @ Nov 19 2011, 11:07 AM) *

http://i55.tinypic.com/2wcl829.png




Hot.png

No, I will never get tired of this pic. Sticking Out Tongue.png

since you have not placed any restrictions on DAS or using 180 rotation for example CMIIW.

Dozens of Hard Droppers have participated in human testing of MPH in the past. No human was able to reach 2 PPS in effective play using MPH. There appears to be a human mental speed ceiling when you combine Dory with no preview, even if you allow ghost, zero LCD, instant DAS, etc. I thought about bringing this up in:

http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5072

and other such "what is the limit?" threads. I have also considered an MPH challenge such as this one you are doing

BUT

this always holds me back:

This rule can be easily cheated in NullpoMino 7.5 by cheating bastards such as Paradox the cheater. The piece preview SOUNDS cannot be suppressed in NullpoMino 7.5 by a rule file. Even though the next piece cannot be SEEN, it can easily be HEARD.

Good luck with this challenge, but you might consider updating the OP a bit in light of this info. My future hope is to get some sound-suppressed MPH modes in 0mino. Undecided.png

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 9 2013, 11:31 PM

QUOTE(MarioThePhenom @ Jun 9 2013, 09:16 PM) *

are you ready to give me a medal? Sticking Out Tongue.png

I said don't even.

QUOTE(Sisu @ Jun 9 2013, 09:28 PM) *

(Sisu's giant post here)

I see... edited the OP, just linked to your post, didn't feel like writing too much.
I'm gonna trust the Hard Drop community on this one. Don't disappoint me, people.

Posted by: Integration Jun 10 2013, 07:50 PM

58.61 seconds with 1-key finesse. Not sure if it is cheating or falls under this category:

QUOTE(FelipeMayrink @ Jun 9 2013, 04:16 PM) *
You can choose the rest. (DAS, skin, gravity, finesse, etc.)

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 10 2013, 08:13 PM

QUOTE(Integration @ Jun 10 2013, 07:50 PM) *

58.61 seconds with 1-key finesse. Not sure if it is cheating or falls under this category:

What I meant by finesse was that you could make errors, and not care about it. It's all about speed. I guess it was kinda ambiguous.

But yeah, no 1-key finesse. Just your standard normal tetris. Sorry. =/

Posted by: MarioThePhenom Jun 11 2013, 01:36 AM

1:21

Posted by: GODOFWAR22 Jun 11 2013, 08:56 PM

Mario!! Do this challenge blind!


Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 12 2013, 05:26 PM

QUOTE(MarioThePhenom @ Jun 11 2013, 01:36 AM) *

1:21

See? Told you not to even.

QUOTE(GODOFWAR22 @ Jun 11 2013, 08:56 PM) *

Mario!! Do this challenge blind!

With one hand! In a shark tank!

Posted by: VladtheImpala Jun 12 2013, 07:38 PM

1:20. but this would be significantly easier (IMO) with no shitty soft drop.

1:20. but this would be significantly easier (IMO) with no shitty soft drop.

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 12 2013, 07:54 PM

QUOTE(VladtheImpala @ Jun 12 2013, 07:38 PM) *

1:20. but this would be significantly easier (IMO) with no shitty soft drop.

1:20. but this would be significantly easier (IMO) with no shitty soft drop.

Jeez, ok. Re-uploaded the file with a Standard-Plus-J sofdrop speed. Should be less "shitty" now.

Jeez, ok. Re-uploaded the file with a Standard-Plus-J sofdrop speed. Should be less "shitty" now.

Posted by: VladtheImpala Jun 12 2013, 07:56 PM

Danke. (Yeah my internet is kinda weird, not sure why it double posted) One item of interest is that the sonic drop style of 40lining (you know, when you soft drop like a bunch of pieces instantly in the beginning and then start playing) is probably a quick route to at least sub 60.

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 12 2013, 08:01 PM

QUOTE(VladtheImpala @ Jun 12 2013, 07:56 PM) *

Danke. (Yeah my internet is kinda weird, not sure why it double posted) One item of interest is that the sonic drop style of 40lining (you know, when you soft drop like a bunch of pieces instantly in the beginning and then start playing) is probably a quick route to at least sub 60.

I don't think this would be a very good strategy. The Sonic Drop Method depends on downstacking. Downstacking depends on getting some right pieces. And you can never trust a memoryless randomizer to give you the right pieces.

Posted by: VladtheImpala Jun 12 2013, 08:05 PM

But you can hope that it will Sticking Out Tongue.png. I don't think that this will consistantly give you good times. but i think eventually it will. also because of weird 180 spins and whatnot, i think that downstacking will be easier than you would think, and also the "speed boost" is more pronounced at lower speeds, right?

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 12 2013, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(VladtheImpala @ Jun 12 2013, 08:05 PM) *

But you can hope that it will Sticking Out Tongue.png. I don't think that this will consistantly give you good times. but i think eventually it will. also because of weird 180 spins and whatnot, i think that downstacking will be easier than you would think, and also the "speed boost" is more pronounced at lower speeds, right?

All right, feel free to try it out then... You would still get http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=73165.

Posted by: MarioThePhenom Jun 13 2013, 07:56 PM

QUOTE(FelipeMayrink @ Jun 12 2013, 08:09 PM) *

All right, feel free to try it out then... You would still get http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?act=findpost&pid=73165.

1 GAME OUT OF POSSIBLY 1000 WILL GET YOU THAT SUB 60

well caps lock was on and im too lay to retype it,but im not yelling or nothing, IVE TRIED ALOT ALREADY fucking caps

Posted by: Sisu Jun 13 2013, 10:39 PM

QUOTE(Integration @ Jun 10 2013, 11:50 AM) *

58.61 seconds with 1-key finesse.

VOIDH Halo.png

This is interesting. MPH gives you no ability to plan your next move, so 1-key seems to give a more distinct speed advantage than usual. Nerd.png

Posted by: Integration Jun 14 2013, 05:02 AM

Next time please don't use http://youtu.be/LhS7cslsXFc?t=16s.




Very lucky ending. I got exactly the 2 pieces at the end that I needed.

You are right Sisu. 1-key finesse is perfect for that challenge. I am roughly 10 BPM faster.


Posted by: vipjun Jun 14 2013, 05:07 AM

QUOTE(Integration @ Jun 14 2013, 01:02 AM) *

Next time please don't use http://youtu.be/LhS7cslsXFc?t=16s.




Very lucky ending. I got exactly the 2 pieces at the end that I needed.

You are right Sisu. 1-key finesse is perfect for that challenge. I am roughly 10 BPM faster.
  • memoryless: You often can use the same key 2 times in a row (stacking S, Z, O pieces above each other)
  • no ghost: Ghost is useless for 1-key finesse
  • previewless: You get to know your next piece exactly in the moment you press a key.


what is 1key finesse? is that when you set movement rate to something other than 0 and try to land the piece while sliding ?

my fastest so far 1:28.91 @ 111 pieces

Posted by: Integration Jun 14 2013, 05:25 AM

1-key finesse is having a lot of keys for everything. You rotate, move and drop a piece with 1 keystroke. There are up to 4 rotation directions and up to 10 columns in which you can drop a piece, so you need roughly 40 keys (35 to be more explicitely). I use a slightly modified system, which halves the number of keys, but forces you to make an extra key stroke from time to time. It is explained http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4852.

Posted by: farter Jun 14 2013, 07:49 PM

1:08.41
with a PC QwQ
http://www.mediafire.com/view/z9qn85p128xeudo/MPH_01-08-41_farter_2013_06_15_03_38_35.rep

trying more

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jun 14 2013, 08:27 PM

QUOTE(farter @ Jun 14 2013, 07:49 PM) *

1:08.41
with a PC QwQ
http://www.mediafire.com/view/z9qn85p128xeudo/MPH_01-08-41_farter_2013_06_15_03_38_35.rep

trying more

Hey, very nice. You're now 1st on this challenge, congrats! Smile.png

Posted by: Sisu Jun 21 2013, 07:01 PM

QUOTE(Integration @ Jun 13 2013, 09:02 PM) *

Next time please don't use http://youtu.be/LhS7cslsXFc?t=16s.

DHTPHTGIYKWIMAITYD Kiss.png

If we were to say 2pps is an unattainable "speed of light" in MPH, what would be the maximum theoretically survivable gravity?

forgive me for not wanting to do the maths Sticking Out Tongue.png

also, beyond theory, what is the max gravity you yourself can sustainably tolerate?

Posted by: Integration Jun 21 2013, 07:17 PM

< 2 pps means that you have less than a half second per piece. If you use 1.5 frames per grid cell, it falls all the way down within a half second. I am pretty sure 2 frames per grid cell (level 19 in NES) would lead to your death pretty fast. Oh we have to call Ben. He has tried NES Tetris with 0 previews.

Posted by: kevincentius Jun 21 2013, 08:57 PM

Damn so much more difficult than I thought. So this is how terrible tetris feels like without preview.

Posted by: Integration Jun 22 2013, 12:16 PM

Now, I have tried this ruleset with gravity. I needed a while to get 40 lines with a gravity of 3 frames per grid cell. It's the same as Game Boy Tetris level 20 or NES Tetris level 18. If you want to try it too, you have to set Gravity to 1 and G_Max to 3 (and lock delay to 0). If it is too fast, try 3.5 frames per grid cell ( Gravity = 2, G_Max = 7 ) or 4 frames per grid cell ( Gravity = 1, G_Max = 4 ).

Posted by: Sisu Jun 22 2013, 04:08 PM

hmm. inb4 MPH marathon challenge Halo.png

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Jul 22 2013, 05:30 PM

QUOTE(Sisu @ Jun 21 2013, 07:01 PM) *

DHTPHTGIYKWIMAITYD Kiss.png

Let me guess:
"Don't Hate The Player Hate The Game If You Know What I Mean And I Think You Do" ?

I'm sorry for the bump, but I really wanted to know what that giant made up acronym meant.
ACTUALLY, I'M NOT SORRY! MY THREAD IS AWESOME, CHECK IT OUT GUYS!!!!!!1!

Posted by: Integration Jul 22 2013, 08:47 PM

QUOTE(FelipeMayrink @ Jul 22 2013, 07:30 PM) *
Let me guess:
"Don't Hate The Player Hate The Game If You Know What I Mean And I Think You Do" ?

Oh Sisu, you overestimated me. It would have been http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DHTPHTG http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=IYKWIMAITYD to figure it out. I don't deserve anymore to post in this thread. Frown.png

Posted by: fnord Aug 14 2013, 01:13 AM

my best attempt so far: 1:20.36, 121 pieces, 1.493 pps. It's actually my first attempt where I didn't top out; I've yet to surpass it. (I also didn't use the rule in the OP, and I'm not sure if that was supposed to be mandatory...? because I did it with lock delay and 20G, no ARE of course.)

Posted by: farter Aug 16 2013, 08:04 AM

my record updated
1:06.66
replay download:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/12qrv02csimtskk/MPH_01-06-66_farter_2013_08_16_15_47_32.rep

*mad*

Posted by: FelipeMayrink Aug 16 2013, 04:56 PM

1) Congrats on beating your own record, farter Smile.png
2) Updated the records on the OP
3) Updated the rule, now with 20G softdrop (same as Standard-Zero)

Posted by: jkwon23 Jul 31 2014, 06:11 PM

Sub 60 here i come. 1:03.60





Attached File(s)
Attached File  2014_07_31_11_11_21.rep ( 20.03k ) Number of downloads: 13

Posted by: Kinac Jul 31 2014, 08:55 PM

QUOTE(jkwon23 @ Jul 31 2014, 06:11 PM) *

Sub 60 here i come. 1:03.60

Holy crap. I can't even do one single play without misplacing like 5 pieces. And I played at like 0.50 pieces per minute.

Posted by: jkwon23 Jul 31 2014, 09:35 PM

I wonder how NES players would do?

Posted by: Alexandra Jul 31 2014, 09:35 PM

i tried 3times..
1:10
1:13
1:15

lolol getting worse each time T,.T

Posted by: M_Bison Aug 2 2014, 05:30 AM

1:02.35 Naughty.png

- Jono

EDIT:
1:01.41

Posted by: Kitaru Aug 2 2014, 08:56 AM

Can I make the rotation rules a bit more like Classic? (i.e., point-side down, no S/Z/I symmetry, etc.) I feel like that would make things more comfortable, and it's probably a tiny bit more authentic that way anyhow (not to say it's aiming for authenticity per se! Sticking Out Tongue.png).

Posted by: officegunner Aug 3 2014, 04:32 AM

QUOTE(M_Bison @ Aug 2 2014, 05:30 AM) *

1:02.35 Naughty.png

- Jono

EDIT:
1:01.41


We need your video jono smile.gif

Posted by: M_Bison Aug 3 2014, 04:56 AM

QUOTE(officegunner @ Aug 3 2014, 02:32 PM) *
We need your video jono smile.gif

No sweat Hot.png

I may goof around with this challenge a few more times before uploading though. See if I can slash a few more seconds off...

- Jono

Posted by: Sisu Aug 3 2014, 07:24 AM




90 seconds? artist.png

Posted by: officegunner Aug 3 2014, 02:18 PM

you know who i'd want to attempt this challenge? Aitsu_K and Subversive
(not Kero because he needs the previews)

Posted by: zaphod77 Aug 5 2014, 04:36 AM

actually electronika 60 version DOES have ONE preview. It's optional, and, like many early versions, turning it off gives you more points for your pieces then having it on.

How the game was really like back in the day.

0 or 1 preview, controllable by pressing a key
gravity never exceeds 1g.
level advance button (you can advance a level at any time)
nintendo rotation system exactly, but only CCW rotation (CW was added in gameboy tetris, and a prototype of Sega Rotation was added in PC spectrum Holobyte tetris (both S and Z rounded right.)
gravity lock (everything but sega tetris used this for a while)
DAS by keyboard typematic rate. (In practice that means you had to tap unless you messed with it or did a wall charge at low gravity, where it would be pointless anyway)
non locking hard drop (actually it does't always lock, but treat it as locking hard drop for purposes of this challenge)
no soft drop (sega tetris and Atari tetris added that)
no ARE (it sorta exists, but is not very predictable so for purposes of this challenge use no ARE)
little line clear delay.

tetris 3.12 for PC dos, playable under dosbox, with phantom off, is ideal to play this challenge. smile.gif

Posted by: farter Oct 6 2014, 09:33 PM

1:00.56

i don't know what i'm playing.......
the real "terror instinct"

https://www.mediafire.com/?m5gb4xvehobrb2b

i modified the rule a bit (prevent DAS movement while drop key is down √). hope that it won't disqualify this replay.
but more strictly, early tetris engines use keyboard events generated by os-level auto repeat, and das should be interrupted by drop key (but also rotate key Frown.png ).

edit: pic
http://i.imgur.com/NP265Up.png

Posted by: M_Bison Oct 8 2014, 11:10 PM

QUOTE(farter @ Oct 7 2014, 08:33 AM) *

1:00.56

Congrats on the amazing time/run Gasp.png

Heart.png

- Jono

Posted by: Blitz Sep 20 2015, 09:38 AM



That ending...

Posted by: Note Sep 24 2015, 07:08 PM

02:39.86. Oi. .__. I got rekt so much by mis-dropping a lot..

Posted by: ultranooby Sep 24 2015, 11:16 PM

01:24:54
Harder than I expected >.<

Posted by: MatMayuga Feb 17 2016, 07:04 AM

My time: 1:55.90 (115 seconds)

Posted by: Okey_Dokey Apr 3 2016, 10:07 AM

Here's a sub 60 with vertical spawning directions:



vertical spawnings > horizontal spawnings

Posted by: kb1900 Apr 4 2016, 07:18 PM

1:53 first time
1:30 second time
1:28 third time
2:14 fourth time


i dont think it is too hard my normal sprint time is around 45 second avg...probably because im a noob and hardly use previews anyway.

i feel like no ghost piece is a good way to practice finesse i do like this mode a lot

edit: looks like im avging ~ 130 or so

Posted by: Okey_Dokey Apr 6 2016, 07:50 PM

Eventually got a sub 60 with horizontal spawnings. I can finally stop. Took me much longer than I preferred. 58.56 seconds, around 106.6 pieces per minute:



QUOTE(kb1900 @ Apr 4 2016, 07:18 PM) *
i dont think it is too hard ...

Stackingwise, it's not too hard. All you need is some classic Tetris experience. It's just that some guideline players mess up because they aren't used to no hold and mean randomizer. If you play 1-preview Tetris - either under influence of gravity or in multiplayer - your brain pretty much treats it the same way as previewless Tetris (in over 90% of the cases you already made the choice where the active piece goes, so you just try to find a spot for the next piece in the resulting playfield). The only difference is that in previewless Tetris you have to make the choice much faster, if you want to play fast. And that's the unfunny part of MPH sprint. If I want to play just 1 piece per minute faster, I misdrop twice as much and overlook the ideal spot twice as often. If I play with some previews I try to maintain the flow - in previewless play I just smash the buttons.

On the bright side, in MPH it's hard to dominate other players in multiplayer. The percental speed difference is much smaller (people always have to idle a little to realize where to put the active piece, so not as much multitasking and keyboard control needed) and one can't play much smarter than the opponent (because one can't predict future pieces).

Posted by: farter Apr 7 2016, 05:13 AM

QUOTE(Okey_Dokey @ Apr 7 2016, 03:50 AM) *

Eventually got a sub 60 with horizontal spawnings. I can finally stop. Took me much longer than I preferred. 58.56 seconds, around 106.6 pieces per minute:

grats and orz
imo this is just like the ultimate reflection speed test in tetris, like repeating start of a 100m race 100 times.. sometimes it's almost making me mad but i still manage to hold the speed...

Posted by: Okey_Dokey Apr 7 2016, 07:11 PM

Thanks. Honestly, I feel like the client gave me an edge¹. I remember trying this challenge some years ago and I wasn't close to 60 seconds. Surely, I have collected more experience with horizontal spawnings in the meantime², but my overall speed hasn't improved otherwise. So yeah, I feel like a doped runner in an amateur race ... but hey I am the winner (first to sub 60 with 1-key-finesse, vertical spawnings and horizontal spawnings)! The undoped (NullpoMino) race is still open, if anybody is insane enough trying to go for it.

¹ NullpoMino gives slow visual feedback because it uses Direct3D and repaints the whole screen; this is a decisive factor for MPH because you must perceive the active piece as fast as possible; if you see the next piece let's say 1 frame latish, then this makes 1.67 seconds over the whole 40 lines

² ... and still I misdrop like every other vertical I piece placement with horizontal spawnings + instant DAS; finesse with vertical spawnings is easier because usually the order in which you DAS and rotate doesn't matter

Posted by: Danieru Feb 7 2017, 10:26 PM

https://s29.postimg.org/dw9skvf6v/electronica60explo.png

Posted by: Danieru Feb 11 2018, 02:48 AM

1:00.26
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/328349766226542603/412077094994968577/unknown.png

Posted by: DarkWolfLP2014 Feb 11 2018, 03:01 AM

Damn I did absolutely terrible... 02:20.23

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/147897421169426434/412080424731410432/2018_02_10_22_00_18.png


Electronica 60 Tetris is hard.

Posted by: kb1900 Mar 1 2019, 11:30 PM

just wanted to bump this challenge tbh. my best was 59 about a year ago but i am highly curious what the human limit is in this mode.

would love to see some of the faster players give this a shot

Posted by: MatMayuga Jul 10 2019, 02:15 AM

https://i.postimg.cc/Fzb4cvgw/mph-1m33-30s.png
Beaten my previous time in the Electronika 60 challenge. New MPH time: 1:33.30

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