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> Bad sprint habits?
kb1900
post Oct 28 2015, 01:23 PM
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Hi all - I just got into tetris about a month ago. Early this week I started playing Sprint a LOT on nullpomino instead of ultra/battle on TF. I've been reading the guides which have been extremely informative and my times have gone down really quickly (3:30 on Sunday to currently ~1:15 - I know I still have a long way to go)

Anyway, I was wondering if there is an exact time at which point I should start worrying about my bad habits. I installed the finesse training mod that links to celer.be and noticed that my finesse mistakes are consistently above 110+. Yet, when I am constantly focussed on finesse my stacking suffers since I hardly have that aspect of sprint down either.

At what point should I be focused on finesse over stacking over speed etc.? What metric at my time has the highest yield for improvement (kpt/ppm/finesse etc. - should I attach a replay?).

Really sorry if this isn't the right place for this or is one of those threads that has already been asked. I'm literally falling in love with this game and have been pushing myself to get better. Thanks in advance for any help/advice!

edit: just found this thread and the recommendation was to work on TPM! http://harddrop.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7381
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Master
post Oct 28 2015, 06:09 PM
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it is going to take longer to learn finesse since you just started , but is going to be worth it in the long run ... because i used to be really fast with sprint 25 sprint time in nullpo but i got to a point that i got stuck .. and the thing that i need was finesse .. then my sprint was down to 23 .. and i was regretting not learning finesse earlier , finesse is good not only for nullpo sprint but for 1vs1 (ARENA)
plus also helps with lagg Grin.png so just take your time learning finesse and tspins are good too ... Grin.png good luck!!
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kb1900
post Oct 28 2015, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE(Master @ Oct 28 2015, 06:09 PM) *

it is going to take longer to learn finesse since you just started , but is going to be worth it in the long run ... because i used to be really fast with sprint 25 sprint time in nullpo but i got to a point that i got stuck .. and the thing that i need was finesse .. then my sprint was down to 23 .. and i was regretting not learning finesse earlier , finesse is good not only for nullpo sprint but for 1vs1 (ARENA)
plus also helps with lagg Grin.png so just take your time learning finesse and tspins are good too ... Grin.png good luck!!


thank you! i've decided to work on having completely efficient keystrokes before progressing anymore with my speed. guess i wont be getting sub 60 anytime soon but hopefully itll be worth it in the long haul!
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MicroBlizz
post Oct 29 2015, 02:04 AM
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I don't think it matters if you learn finesse earlier or later. I personally learned finesse at 26.xx while others learned earlier and I see no distinguishable difference in progression. I have found though that how you prioritize your learning in the game has an impact on your playing style and what kind of player you turn out to be later on (speed demon, downstacker, pattern designer, etc). While I don't think finesse matters too much earlier on, I think you made a good choice (I resented not learning it sooner so I'm a little biased Sticking Out Tongue.png). There's a lot to learn and a lot to take in so like Master said, take your time. Good luck and happy stacking!


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baseballboy4296
post Oct 29 2015, 02:52 AM
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Finesse is very important, and i'm sure everyone will tell you that.

Another important thing is to make sure your key configuration isn't limiting you in the long run. Since you just started, it would be good for you to figure out what works for you now. It's a miracle that I was able to sub30 (on nullpo) with my old configuration. I had everything except for harddrop mapped to my right hand, and harddrop on my left. I'd link you to another topic on this site where everyone listed their configurations for ideas, but I can't seem to find it. I recommend putting rotations and hold on one hand and movement and drops on the other, but whatever works best for you should be fine.
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kb1900
post Oct 29 2015, 01:30 PM
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thank you so much guys for your tips!

I've started with learning finesse for one piece at a time and simultaneously using both rotate keys - it feels like im writing with my left hand haha. i did used to play BT about 4-5 years ago and i guess my muscle memory from back then is coming back to make everything a little harder.


QUOTE(MicroBlizz @ Oct 29 2015, 02:04 AM) *

I don't think it matters if you learn finesse earlier or later. I personally learned finesse at 26.xx while others learned earlier and I see no distinguishable difference in progression. I have found though that how you prioritize your learning in the game has an impact on your playing style and what kind of player you turn out to be later on (speed demon, downstacker, pattern designer, etc). While I don't think finesse matters too much earlier on, I think you made a good choice (I resented not learning it sooner so I'm a little biased Sticking Out Tongue.png). There's a lot to learn and a lot to take in so like Master said, take your time. Good luck and happy stacking!


Ah, I really like the term pattern designer. But thats good to hear. Im definitely playing for the long run (tetris might be the most convenient hobby through medical school)


QUOTE(baseballboy4296 @ Oct 29 2015, 02:52 AM) *

Finesse is very important, and i'm sure everyone will tell you that.

Another important thing is to make sure your key configuration isn't limiting you in the long run. Since you just started, it would be good for you to figure out what works for you now. It's a miracle that I was able to sub30 (on nullpo) with my old configuration. I had everything except for harddrop mapped to my right hand, and harddrop on my left. I'd link you to another topic on this site where everyone listed their configurations for ideas, but I can't seem to find it. I recommend putting rotations and hold on one hand and movement and drops on the other, but whatever works best for you should be fine.


Right now I have z, x for rotations and c for hold. It feels weird to be using my left ring finger to rotate ccw because I literally have never used it in any e-setting (sc2). do you think its worth changing that? It almost feels like my left ring finger is just a lot weaker than the other fingers.
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Master
post Oct 29 2015, 03:25 PM
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dont worry about having a weird configuration i managed to sub 30 ( my configuration was weird too i would use only my right hand to do all the work and i would only use my left hand to press the space bar (harddrop)

so good luck
PMP
i think pizza knows what this means ... xD
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ZeroT
post Oct 30 2015, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE(baseballboy4296 @ Oct 29 2015, 02:52 AM) *

Finesse is very important, and i'm sure everyone will tell you that.

Another important thing is to make sure your key configuration isn't limiting you in the long run. Since you just started, it would be good for you to figure out what works for you now. It's a miracle that I was able to sub30 (on nullpo) with my old configuration. I had everything except for harddrop mapped to my right hand, and harddrop on my left. I'd link you to another topic on this site where everyone listed their configurations for ideas, but I can't seem to find it. I recommend putting rotations and hold on one hand and movement and drops on the other, but whatever works best for you should be fine.


I think the thread bbb was talking about was this one The thread. There have been probably been other discussions on the topic as well. I would tend to try to look for a balanced setup that puts the most used actions on your strongest fingers. With your setup (using c as hold) is a waste of your index finger.

I was speculating a while back about an ideal setup... instead of remembering what I said, ill just quote myself:
QUOTE
I have put a reasonable amount of thought into key-mapping in regards to tetris. I think a balanced setup between your hands utilizing your strong fingers to do most of the heavy work. When I remapped my keys I chose to use leftshift/z/x/c as hold/180/lr/rr this put the most used keys the lr and rr on your two strongest fingers and hold on your weakest (we were trying to minimize that anyways Wink.png ). And for my right left/right/up/down for left/right/HD/SD. So balanced 4 keys left, 4 keys right.

Recently though, I noticed that it isn't quite as balanced as I initially thought it might be. The more efficient you become, the less and less you use your rotates and so I find myself at a point where my right hand is doing most of the work. If I was to try to achieve the most balanced setup now, Im not sure how I would map it.

EDIT: How about this z/x/c/v as 180/lr/rr/HD and left/right/up/down as left/right/hold/soft drop. Might be a good idea to try something out there like this... you know...for science!
Actually z/x/c/s might be better for you as lr/rr/hd/180, wont be as big of a learning curve, and gets rid of that stupid pinky finger use.


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Master
post Oct 30 2015, 07:46 PM
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you have one without 180 rotation ..? since i dont use that .. ._.
and one question ... do you think 180 rotation is important..? if so why..? xD thats all
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kb1900
post Nov 21 2015, 08:47 PM
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hey guys i hope this isn't spamming the forum or anything like that but ive pretty much been exclusively playing on cultris 2 (and been getting wrecked) but I like the challenge or no holding and learning to stack differently.

Even my sprint times have now finally come down to near the 1 minute mark (all my top 10s are 1:02 - 1:07).

I'm at a point where I feel like I have no problem sustaining 100 tpm but I start to make a lot of mistakes when I push my speed and it causes me to have poor stacking. Do you guys have any tips for this? Should I try playing like 5 games slow and 5 games fast or something to that accord?

I haven't gotten to play more than like an hour every other day so I just want to be efficient when I do get the chance to play
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Alexandra
post Nov 21 2015, 10:31 PM
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When I first started playing Tetris and got to 60lpm on hangame (I think that equals around 120bpm on c2), the winner of the Hangame BurgerKing league mentioned to try to place 3 blocks consecutively really fast take a slight pause and then do it again like a pulse.
I didn't listen by the way.
but maybe you want to try it out.

FINE PHIL. MAYBE IT DOESN'T WORK.

I just go steady pace and only speed up for combos or when I need to go down. Maybe purchase a metronome, set it to 6/8 and place a block per click.

By the way, to get good in c2, you have to stack so that there is room for any single piece. Also, you must use the preview.
To get good in multiplayer, you have to go around 150bpm ish and be able to downstack efficiently in singles. even though you can go down more (double or triple) with that L piece vertical, if you can put it horizontal and downstack with 2 or 3singles, it is better.

example: http://tinyurl.com/oy7y6zx


but i is noob. Frown.png

did I even answer your question.. ...... have a great Thanksgiving!
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kb1900
post Nov 22 2015, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE(Alexandra @ Nov 21 2015, 10:31 PM) *

When I first started playing Tetris and got to 60lpm on hangame (I think that equals around 120bpm on c2), the winner of the Hangame BurgerKing league mentioned to try to place 3 blocks consecutively really fast take a slight pause and then do it again like a pulse.
I didn't listen by the way.
but maybe you want to try it out.

FINE PHIL. MAYBE IT DOESN'T WORK.

I just go steady pace and only speed up for combos or when I need to go down. Maybe purchase a metronome, set it to 6/8 and place a block per click.

By the way, to get good in c2, you have to stack so that there is room for any single piece. Also, you must use the preview.
To get good in multiplayer, you have to go around 150bpm ish and be able to downstack efficiently in singles. even though you can go down more (double or triple) with that L piece vertical, if you can put it horizontal and downstack with 2 or 3singles, it is better.

but i is noob. Frown.png

did I even answer your question.. ...... have a great Thanksgiving!


haha I appreciate any and all advice i can get for c2! I am probably the worst down stacker on the platform (prob bc i never played multiplayer before). But Im averaging like only a 100bpm!

But I do understand what you mean about placing the l piece horizontal while downstacking. im pretty much dead every time I place it standing b/c everyone is faster than me xD

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!
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Aluce
post Nov 22 2015, 12:27 PM
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From my experience, playing Cultris primarily has a strong influence on the way you upstack and downstack (but for me, mostly upstack). Sometimes, before starting a sprint session in Nullpo, I'd play Cultris. Sometimes it makes me feel as though it enables me to stack flatter and more efficiently.

I don't think learning Finesse will have a great influence on your times right now. But if you intend on getting very good, it's of course never a bad idea to learn it at any time, the sooner the better. I think it doesn't matter that much until other components (such as "thinking speed" and the ability to actually physically move/rotate/drop quickly enough and not mess up) are better as well -- but I might be biased as well since I only started learning Finesse when I felt I got stuck (and then it greatly helped me, putting me from about 48 seconds down to the 36 today).

100+ finesse points is a lot, though, so perhaps for you it's a different story, and learning Finesse might already have a strong impact on your times.

Also, I usually try to play around the fastest speed that I can handle without constantly messing up. That often means I do mess up at some point during most runs, but it also means that runs I do complete are generally fast, and I think if you play at your desired speed, you'll gradually make less mistakes until you get there. (The greatest limiting factor for me at the moment is the occasional moment where I "stutter" and don't immediately know what to do, causing me to lose like half a second or even a full second over just one piece.)


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kb1900
post Nov 23 2015, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE(Aluce @ Nov 22 2015, 12:27 PM) *

From my experience, playing Cultris primarily has a strong influence on the way you upstack and downstack (but for me, mostly upstack). Sometimes, before starting a sprint session in Nullpo, I'd play Cultris. Sometimes it makes me feel as though it enables me to stack flatter and more efficiently.

I don't think learning Finesse will have a great influence on your times right now. But if you intend on getting very good, it's of course never a bad idea to learn it at any time, the sooner the better. I think it doesn't matter that much until other components (such as "thinking speed" and the ability to actually physically move/rotate/drop quickly enough and not mess up) are better as well -- but I might be biased as well since I only started learning Finesse when I felt I got stuck (and then it greatly helped me, putting me from about 48 seconds down to the 36 today).

100+ finesse points is a lot, though, so perhaps for you it's a different story, and learning Finesse might already have a strong impact on your times.

Also, I usually try to play around the fastest speed that I can handle without constantly messing up. That often means I do mess up at some point during most runs, but it also means that runs I do complete are generally fast, and I think if you play at your desired speed, you'll gradually make less mistakes until you get there. (The greatest limiting factor for me at the moment is the occasional moment where I "stutter" and don't immediately know what to do, causing me to lose like half a second or even a full second over just one piece.)


I still average around 100 finesse mistakes even with sprint times around 60s and the majority of the time it is bc I hold left/right too long and das multiple pieces and have a bad habbit of tapping all the way to the other side of the matrix.

Its strange that my sprint time on cultris 2 is 2 seconds faster than nullpomino.

Thank you for the tips!
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Kewra
post Nov 23 2015, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE(Aluce @ Nov 22 2015, 12:27 PM) *

From my experience, playing Cultris primarily has a strong influence on the way you upstack and downstack (but for me, mostly upstack). Sometimes, before starting a sprint session in Nullpo, I'd play Cultris. Sometimes it makes me feel as though it enables me to stack flatter and more efficiently.

I don't think learning Finesse will have a great influence on your times right now. But if you intend on getting very good, it's of course never a bad idea to learn it at any time, the sooner the better. I think it doesn't matter that much until other components (such as "thinking speed" and the ability to actually physically move/rotate/drop quickly enough and not mess up) are better as well -- but I might be biased as well since I only started learning Finesse when I felt I got stuck (and then it greatly helped me, putting me from about 48 seconds down to the 36 today).

100+ finesse points is a lot, though, so perhaps for you it's a different story, and learning Finesse might already have a strong impact on your times.

Also, I usually try to play around the fastest speed that I can handle without constantly messing up. That often means I do mess up at some point during most runs, but it also means that runs I do complete are generally fast, and I think if you play at your desired speed, you'll gradually make less mistakes until you get there. (The greatest limiting factor for me at the moment is the occasional moment where I "stutter" and don't immediately know what to do, causing me to lose like half a second or even a full second over just one piece.)


I'm having problems in sprinting as well. So learning finesse won't impact your time as someone who's moderately better?
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